Are the Pillars in MfS HQ from Hitler's Office?

[Bullster]

Salutations!

A topic that has been niggling my mind as of late...

Some background. Last year I had an extensive tour of the wonderful city of Berlin, taking in the sights and culture but also visiting WW2 and Cold War locations.

Some of you will be aware of the long standing rumours that the Mohrenstrasse U-Bahn station used cladding from the Reichskanzlei just a hundred metres away. I have noted that some studies say they are from Thuringia but I say to that - balderdash and piffle! I find it hard to believe that such a luxurious and expensive material would be sourced from a quarry far away when there is a perfect source of the material 100 meters away. And not using it because it was somehow tainted, that was never Soviet ideology, after all, they had no issues to re-use fascist prison or concentration camps, even Auschwitz...

So foregoing the argument of the Mohrenstrasse and assuming it is from Hitler's HQ, now comes my next question...could this be the same material used in the reception of MfS HQ in the Normannenstrasse? I had visited the U-Bahn station one day and the MfS HQ the next and the similarities between the cladding was astounding. The same colour, texture, also with fossils embedded; I was told that this building was erected in the '50s so it is conceivable that the material from the Reichskanzlei was used. It would even fit in with the Stasi creed of victory over the fascists.

I know it is a rather speculative post but I do so to stimulate discussion and hear opinions.

Here are some photos I made for comparison:

Mohrenstrasse U-Bahn Cladding:







MfS HQ Normannenstrasse Reception (note the pillar cladding):

[ehrentitle]

Reddish-grey marble from Austria was used in interior rooms of the Reichschancellery, most of it was in the impressive Mosaic Hall. The Reichschancellery was demolished in 1947-48. I've heard that this marble was used in the construction of the Mohrenstraße U-bahn station,
for the Soviet war memorial in Treptower Park and in the Soviet Embassy in Berlin. Since building materials were scarce in post-war Berlin it's not inconceivable that materials from the Reichschancellery were used in other building projects.

[ehrentitle]

Here is a photo from a City of Berlin website showing some interior photos of the Soviet Embassy, recognize anything familiar on the wall of the photo to the right?



http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.d...otschaft.shtml

[Bullster]

Now that is interesting! I was not aware it was used in the Soviet embassy.

And you must remember, this was a material personally chosen by Hitler in collaboration with Speer and intended to be fitting for the office of a leader of the 1,000 year Reich. No expenses were spared and Speer delivered in record time, it is amazing how the impossible can be achieved if you are allowed to use slaves...

I am not surprised it would be used elsewhere in the post war material shortages, especially when you consider that the Berlin Hausfrau was scrubbing bricks for re-use. Nor that such prime material would be used for exclusive projects, or even as a trophy.

In the case of the Soviet embassy, it is clearly used for decorative purposes to create an affluent air. At MfS HQ, it is not integral to the design, the pillars are kind of ill fitting with the surrounding. Strange eh??

[ehrentitle]

Notice anything familiar in this Treptower Park postcard from my collection?

[Bullster]

I had also visited the Treptow Memorial and it never struck me that this was the same material, as was the case at MfS HQ.

I just rechecked my photos and the material does look different, both in texture and color, possibly it is from the Reichskanzlei, but it does look quite different to that of the Normannenstr. and Mohrenstr.

[ehrentitle]

How about Soviet War Memorial at Schönholzer Heide in Pankow, Berlin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_...olzer_Heide%29

[Bullster]

That does look to be the same material as in Treptow, unfortunately I did not have enough time to visit this memorial, it will be for a next trip

[ehrentitle]

There is also a small memorial in Berlin-Karlshorst, the former headquarters of the Soviet garrison. It has similar stone incorporated into the monument.

In the Treptower monument alone there were 1.4 million cubic feet of stone used and it took 1,200 people, including 200 stone masons and 90 sculptors nearly two years to complete. Schönholzer Heide is nearly the same size, but not as well know.

So where do you think these massive amounts of granite and marble came from in a post-war Germany were the transportation system had been shattered by years of allied bombing?

[Kartofelpreußer]

All of this is very intriguing, but people need to be careful not to assume that every square foot of reddish-brown marble in post-war Berlin was sourced from the RK. It is a not uncommon shade, and it should also be remembered that the chancellery was a partial ruin, meaning some of the material would have been damaged or destroyed, and more of it lost in removal. While SPeer did use it extensively, there was only so much of it in there to go around.

That said, it would be fascinating if someone were able to conduct a survey that might be able to provide solid evidence that any of this marble came from the RK. It would be difficult to prove, but not impossible.

[Dag]

Before I provide some information I want to point out two things which I find rather ironic:

1) The impression to know the truth and the belittling or even ignoring other opinions is very similar to the behaviour of low-level FDJ and party apparatchicks in the late 80ies in East Germany. I refer to this statement: "I have noted that some studies say they are from Thuringia but I say to that - balderdash and piffle!".
2) Considering the impression of ignoring other views, the last sentence "I know it is a rather speculative post but I do so to stimulate discussion and hear opinions." is really amusing.


Now, lets look at the issue:

The subject is the cladding at Mohrenstrasse U-Bahn station. @bullster makes a clear statement regarding opinions that the cladding may come from Thuringia. However, the facts are missing; just a personal opinion is given based on some photos. Later on, the subject is just left "...assuming it is from Hitler's HQ,...".

I fail to understand why the cladding can not have come from Thuringia. Whilst Morgenthau had the idea of making Germany a state which is based on agriculture alone the reality was different. And the fact is that the economy in East Germany had to begin/ continue to operate, not just to fulfil the reparation requirements of the soviet union (Yalta agreement?) but also to keep the people alive.
For that matter (reparations!) industrial bases were set up and improved over the years. And do not forget that we talk about a station which was opened 1950. So, from that perspective alone there is nothing wrong with the idea the cladding comes from Thuringia.
There is one other very interesting fact to consider which may have given rise to the believe that the material at Mohrenstarsse U-Bahn station must be from the Reichskanzlei.

A quarry in Thuringia delivered pillars (6m high and 1.2m wide) and other items for the dining room at the Reichskanzlei (extension Voßstraße). According to the then CEO/owner of the quarry, Josef Hauser, Hitler himself choose the colour. This guy bought out the owners in 1932 and was a faithful follower of Hitler. The whole workforce was to become members of the NSDAP and Heiser became Betriebsführer.
(Source: * 50 Jahre Arbeit, Saalburger Marmorwerke, 1888 - 1938. Am Tag des 50jährigen Bestehens, Kupp, Reichenstein & Helmrich, Schleiz o.J. (1938).

After the war this quarry became VEB Saalburger Marmorwerke and continued to provide material for the building industry. Btw, strictly speaking the marble isn't actually marble but limestone.
The materila was also used abroad (delivered before WW2), including Berliner Dom, buildings in various cities in Europe and even the Emperors Palace in Beijing. Of course, also various other buildings related to the NSDAP like the Führerbau in Munich or the Administrative building of the NSDAP in Munich.
In East Germany (post war) the material was used at Humboldt University Berlin (main entrance) and various buildings in Dresden (during the rebuilding of the area around Altmarkt; some sources seem to indicate that the stone was also used during the reconstruction of the Zwinger in Dresden after the war. Personally I would also not be surprised if the material was used for the entrance halls in some of the buildings at Karl-Marx-Alee Berlin (former Stalin-Allee). http://kma-portal.de/kma/s.html click on history and have a careful look at some of the pictures (Abschnitt C and Abschnitt D)

There is also a very interesting section in this book: Dieter Bingen, Hans-Martin Hinz (Hrsg.): Die Schleifung, Zerstörung und Wiederaufbau historischer Bauten in Deutschland und Polen. Harrassowitz Verlag, Wiesbaden 2005, ISBN 3-447-05096-9.
I refer especially to the article by Hans-Ernst Mittig: Marmor der Reichskanzlei.
In this write-up is stated that an analysis (petrographical analysis, not sure if this is a correct translation) has been carried out on the material in question and that it is not from Reichskanzlei.
I have also read a short summary on an article about Mohrenstrasse in Verkehrsgeschichtlichen Blätter but will have to wait until I manage to get a copy of the specific issue.
From the above I would conclude that the cladding at Normannenstrasse, which was built in the late 50ies, was also provided by VEB Saalburger Marmorwerke and is not from Reichskanzlei.


To round up I'd like to touch briefly on Treptow. The article written by Hans-Ernst Mittig states that the cladding within the entrance of the pavillion might(!) be from Reichskanzlei. What is almost certain is something which applies to pretty much any building in Berlin built in the first 10-15 years after the war - rubble from the ruins was used for foundations/filling material etc. So there might be material from Reichskanzlei there. The red granite (not marble) is actually from Sweden and Finland and was meant to be used for a victory building after the fall of the Soviet Union. It was stored at several places, one was Fuerstenberg an der Oder.

Finally I'd like to thank @Kartofelpreußer for his wise words:

"...but people need to be careful not to assume that every square foot of reddish-brown marble in post-war Berlin was sourced from the RK. It is a not uncommon shade, and it should also be remembered that the chancellery was a partial ruin, meaning some of the material would have been damaged or destroyed, and more of it lost in removal. While SPeer did use it extensively, there was only so much of it in there to go around."

[ehrentitle]

All good points. It appears that we have ventured down a rabbit hole that really has very little relation to East German collecting.