Hello all, I was wonder the rarity and value of a Grenztruppen Aviation officer visor hat in size 57. I know the regular GT officers visor caps are relatively common and not too expensive but I rarely see the aviation version. What would the going rate be for one in size 57 in excellent condition? Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
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Yes they are rarer but can be found for not so high money on German Ebay. Some dealers ask around a USD 100 for them. It is a too high price IMHO.Originally posted by Flash00TA View Post
With a bit of search you can find them for around Euro 25 is made in the mid 80's.
//Felix -
Depends on what one's interpretation of a "Genuine" Grenzflieger Officer Peaked Hat is, really. I acquired mine intentionally from a well known and trusted German Dealer, as I wanted the genuine article.
The Grenztuppen Helicopter Units first appeared as near I can tell, around 1986.
There is nothing preventing anyone that cares to, from outfitting (altering) any Enlisted or Officer Grenztruppen Visor Hat of the appropriate year, with either the enlisted or officer version of the wings and propeller wreaths, and passing the hat off as the genuine article. Nor for me, but I know there will always be the collectors out there that will argue because the hat is real, and the wings and propeller wreaths are real, the hat is therefore real.
This is why they can be found for so much less on German ebay.
I paid a hefty price for mine, knowing it was assembled during the time the Grenzflieger was formed and existed, and not after 1990.
But if someone is wanting to add this type of hat to their collection, there is nothing preventing them from getting the wing and propeller hat insignia, and swapping out the normal NVA style hat insignia, to make the hat into a grenzflieger visor hat.
..... Nothing.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Thanks for the extra info Mike! Didnt know they first started to exist so late as 1986. Mine is from 1989 marked N.
How can I tell if it original versus if you bought it from a dealer? No way really...
A lot of dealers are in the game for money, not mentioning any names. I got mine in a lot with another Grenztruppen visor marked A. All looks tight and nice regarding the insignias. Price was good.
Ebay is a great source for DDR militaria but there is a lot of bad stuff as well. One has to be careful for sure.
Anyone know how many Grenzfliegers and officers that existed?
Cheers
//FelixComment
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1986 is the magic year for the Grenzflieger indeed - before that they wore regular LuSK uniforms. I have one EM-cap of which I'm not 100% sure of the authenticity (though the price was good) and one officers one of which I am fairly sure (even though there's no real way to tell) - it just fits and feels good.Comment
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The ones I have are from a GT Storage source and when they'Re gone, they're gone. But just from Putting together original Period Parts I would say it doesn't make it a fake, just overprized by many Dealers, that's right. It's the same with Police Aviation.Comment
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Nico was my source., though it was several years ago.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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there is no fakes, but real ones and "reassembled" ones.
The way we differ them is that the real ones have only two holes for the flight emblem. The "reassembled" ones have 2 mores holes, left for the narrow standard emblem - the emblem which was originaly on the hat.
You can see it on these pixs, it's a "reassembled" one that I own, you can clearly see the 2 old holes.
I paid only 45 euros for the hat + the grenzflieger parad uniform. So it's quite cheap stuff.
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I think some people are missing the point.
This is a "Collector's Forum", first and foremost.
If a collector of true and authentic DDR military memorabilia is desiring to add a Grenzfliefer Peaked Cap to his/her collection, the hat will be rare and it will be costly. Also, care and research, along with trust will have to be taken to insure it is really the real article.
What is the real article? it is either a Cap issued to a Grenzflieger between 1986 and 1990; or if unissued, was assembled for the Grenz Helicopter Unit between 1986 and 1990.
Anyone can take a regular Grenztruppen Cap and make it into a Grenzflieger Cap. And it can be done for a few pennies. But it now is a "Put-together" cap.
I'm not advocating one way or the other. I really don't care which course someone takes.
I'm just saying. They are not the same. There is a difference.
Given the choice, I am (and was) willing to pay considerably more for a real one, and not a post DDR assembled one.
I don't mind one way or the other how people acquire and add their Grenzflieger Caps to their collection. Just don't try and compare a put-together Cap in your collection, to my original cap that is in my collection. Do they look the same? Yes. Are they the same? Definitely NOT!
So .... what is the difference? When I hold mine in my grubby little paws, I know it was acquired from an actual Grenzflieger Unit, and may have actually been worn by a Grenzflieger.
The collector that assembled his own version post DDR, when holding his Cap, knows it "Ain't the real deal". And that my fellow collectors, is the difference. Its the feeling of having acquired and added something to your collection of real value and worth.
I can take pictures of other people's Dodge Vipers until the moon turns blue. But it is not the same as actually owning one and having it parked in your own garage.
Just saying.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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So then if I understand the previous posts correctly the easiest way to tell a legitimate one from one that has been re-badged is a re-badged cap will have an extra set of holes from where the original standard badge was? Does that work for officers caps as well or just enlisted? I have made a trade for what is supposedly a "real deal" Grenzflieger officers visor cap and I should hopefully be receiving it sometime the beginning of next week. I'm really excited to get my hands on it, I only wish I had some way of posting pictures of it here. Anyway, I'll be checking it out very closely when it arrives and hopefully it is legit as it is purported to be!Comment
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If it has two pairs of holes the possibility that it is a "put together" one are indeed huge. Still, if it does NOT have two pairs of holes, that doesn't make it an "original issued" one
You could post pictures - use Imageshack or websites of the like.Comment
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Now we are getting somewhere including myself! Bravo all! (and I have learned something new about how rare these caps are)
The two empty center hole theory is very valid. I thought about this myself before as well but never bothered to check it. I have now done so and mine is a redone grenztruppen, ie with extra holes. No loss since it did cost me 11 Euros, and its a nice filler piece until I find a virgin
I completely agree with Mike's words that is is a big difference!
For those who like things truly original this is an important aspect. With that said I do think its possible to find a real on Ebay with some luck for a lot better price.
Cheers
//Felix
P.s. Anyone know how many Grenzfliegers there were?Comment
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To all:
I'm glad I was able to make myself understood.
Also, I'm not being critical of members who opt to put one together, or opt to purchase one that is already put together.
I just wanted to clarify that this type of Aviator Visor Hat is very different from one that is original, particularly to collectors like myself, that wish to have the genuine article in their collection.
That is all.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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