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**Gene T** · 10-18-2012, 03:13 PM

I'll bite, since no one else has.

It's human nature to exaggerate the faults and failings of one's adversary; just look at the way Republicans and Democrats trash each other through our public media. If you were to take everything they say literally, you would think that our country is run by only two types of people - Nazis and Marxists, despite the fact that people from other countries can hardly tell the difference between the two party platforms.

Even on a personal level, who among us has not witnessed running feuds between friends or colleagues that are fueled by mutual grievances that are completely out of proportion with the original offense?

The neurobiology behind this kind of behavior likely predates us humans - We have all seen animals of the same species slaughter one another over food and mate. If they could talk, they would undoubtedly tell us that their antagonist is a ruthless monster.

We are also instinctively tribal. One of the most effective ways to reduce internal friction is to introduce an external threat; so there is a tendency to create an evil outsider whenever things are not working so well internally. Plenty of people have made a good living stirring up this kind of anxiety while offering 'solutions' to contain it.

I have never been to the DDR, so can't comment on your core question. However, based on my own experience abroad, I would say that beneath the political facade, people are basically the same everywhere - they just want to be left alone to live their own lives. If this means to conform to a set of rules and standards that they don't necessarily agree with, the vast majority would still choose passive compliance over active resistance, so long as the safety and livelihood of their immediate family and community is guaranteed by the state in exchange. The kind of reign of terror you described is not sustainable in practice, because it would have threatened way too many lives and communities, and can never be justified based on even exaggerated security concerns. There is a fine line between being authoritarian and tyrannical. While this difference is probably lost on the dissident minority that exists in this kind of societies, most regimes are smart enough not to cross the threshold, as doing so is guaranteed to bring forth an extremely unpleasant end to the ruling clique, sooner rather than later (e.g., Gaddafi).

Political propaganda is designed for instant consumption; it tends to age poorly. However, the same game is still being played today, with new pawns and shifting alliances. Sadly, it continues to work extremely well everywhere, because all of us still have problems, and we just know that someone else is to blame for them.

We will never stop creating monsters out of our fellow earthlings unless and until we are attacked by interstellar invaders from Andromeda!

Gene T

**Fritz** · 10-18-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by vacollector View Post

But I wonder did people live in terror of the Stasi or did people in the DDR have really no different life then those in the BRD?

There was no "general Stasi-Terror". If you decided to pi$$ them off you had a problem. A "normal" citizen never faced troubles with the MfS or MdI - actually the contrary was the case.

The stories about the MfS are, IMO, extremely exaggerated - says someone who knows the system first-hand.

Cheers

**KevinH** · 10-19-2012, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Gene T View Post

I'll bite, since no one else has.

It's human nature to exaggerate the faults and failings of one's adversary; just look at the way Republicans and Democrats trash each other through our public media. If you were to take everything they say literally, you would think that our country is run by only two types of people - Nazis and Marxists, despite the fact that people from other countries can hardly tell the difference between the two party platforms.

Even on a personal level, who among us has not witnessed running feuds between friends or colleagues that are fueled by mutual grievances that are completely out of proportion with the original offense?

The neurobiology behind this kind of behavior likely predates us humans - We have all seen animals of the same species slaughter one another over food and mate. If they could talk, they would undoubtedly tell us that their antagonist is a ruthless monster.

We are also instinctively tribal. One of the most effective ways to reduce internal friction is to introduce an external threat; so there is a tendency to create an evil outsider whenever things are not working so well internally. Plenty of people have made a good living stirring up this kind of anxiety while offering 'solutions' to contain it.

I have never been to the DDR, so can't comment on your core question. However, based on my own experience abroad, I would say that beneath the political facade, people are basically the same everywhere - they just want to be left alone to live their own lives. If this means to conform to a set of rules and standards that they don't necessarily agree with, the vast majority would still choose passive compliance over active resistance, so long as the safety and livelihood of their immediate family and community is guaranteed by the state in exchange. The kind of reign of terror you described is not sustainable in practice, because it would have threatened way too many lives and communities, and can never be justified based on even exaggerated security concerns. There is a fine line between being authoritarian and tyrannical. While this difference is probably lost on the dissident minority that exists in this kind of societies, most regimes are smart enough not to cross the threshold, as doing so is guaranteed to bring forth an extremely unpleasant end to the ruling clique, sooner rather than later (e.g., Gaddafi).

Political propaganda is designed for instant consumption; it tends to age poorly. However, the same game is still being played today, with new pawns and shifting alliances. Sadly, it continues to work extremely well everywhere, because all of us still have problems, and we just know that someone else is to blame for them.

We will never stop creating monsters out of our fellow earthlings unless and until we are attacked by interstellar invaders from Andromeda!

Gene T

That's quite well put I think.

I have read many books on the subject of stasi oppression. Yes they did a lot of horrible things, but look at some of the horrible things our nations have done to their people. Yes, restricting citizens freedom to travel was pretty darn bad. That is hard to get around. Keep in mind however, that it was all in the name of preserving the ruling class's ideals; which is the goal of every ruling class in every country. As antagonized as they are, East Germany's leaders did happen to be placed in a rather tough position.

**Mike G.** · 10-19-2012, 07:33 AM

Okay,

We need to let this thread die. I know first hand it is difficult to keep politics out of the DDR Forum, as our Forum is unique. Our Forum has the "Wall".

But, that having been said, there are Forum rules. If you have not familiarized yourself / selves with the rules, when you have time, please do so.

Politics are "Verboten".

I know ..... but thems' the rules.

Thanks for your understanding.

Tschuess,

**Paul Spain** · 10-19-2012, 09:04 AM

Mike I think to get a good idea of the people they did go after people should read the book The Gates Of Hell by Harrison Salisbury, Although it's about the U.S.S.R. I think the D.D.R. employed simular tatcics, In that they only targeted these people:

1. War vets that had fought in wars when need be to defend their country BUT hated their leaders and criticized them to their pals in secret.

2. Novelists that wrote works criticizing the government and included real events to show the wrongs of leadership although set in a fictional setting with fictional characters.

3. People from Western nations that went to D.D.R. soley to try to convince someone popular and disliked by VP and other security to defect.

If you didn't fall into this group I think you was generally left be and since unlike many Soviet places religion was more protected there (particually Lutheran and Catholic) the churches was where people who disliked the way things went generally could discuss this in secret without fear. And after the U.S. established detene with them in 1974 the average American tourist was able to have fun there and sight see, Like anywhere some of the police was nice some just ego maniacs that would spew forth how their society was better than ours and treat you with suspicion, These films was made in 1969 by a American in the D.D.R. religious Lutheran business at the time, People should chat with him on YouTube if they have questions about how people was treated there, Here is the films (they are silent though):

http://www.youtube.com/user/WilliamN...deos?query=DDR

I may be wrong in my theory of how people was targeted for surveillance or arrest though.

**ehrentitle** · 10-19-2012, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Mike G. View Post

Okay,

We need to let this thread die. I know first hand it is difficult to keep politics out of the DDR Forum, as our Forum is unique. Our Forum has the "Wall".

But, that having been said, there are Forum rules. If you have not familiarized yourself / selves with the rules, when you have time, please do so.

Politics are "Verboten".

I know ..... but thems' the rules.

Thanks for your understanding.

Tschuess,

Or look at some of the older threads, this topic has been discussed before in the past.

**Mike G.** · 10-19-2012, 05:09 PM

I know, and I've taken "Heat" from other moderators over it. I can't continue to defend it.

No problem with discussing cultural differences, etc. But "Politics" are out. This thread is treading warm water.

Closed.

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