Sellers question

[uscob]

After we had several problems with bad sellers like on ebay, I was thinking about a pinned thread about experiences with them and to warn new collectors about their Stuff. Was looking on a well known sellers site and he's selling fakes as originals or with other, more interesting, descriptions to get more money for the stuff.
Let's see, what others think about it. Don't understand me wrong, I just want to warn about their behavior and not to ban them totally, but especially newbies have to be carefull before they waste their money. Even I was burned several times by people like them.

[adlerfan53]

Sounds like a great idea. With DDR collecting becoming more popular I believe it would be beneficial to new collectors to start a thread like this.

[Hagen]

Don't understand me wrong, I just want to warn about their behavior

I would appreciate such a thread.

[Mike G.]

I think this has been brought up a couple of times before. The problem is that the subject matter is subjective, and people can sometimes be biased. For example, there is a certain "Well Known Seller" that is highly respected and recommended by some; while there are others that would post on such a thread, that this Seller is a crook. The same is going to happen with other Sellers as well. Where do you draw the line?

I think it is far better to call attention to a Seller when an actual item they are offering for sale is clearly a fake, and a thread on the forum is then initiated to bring attention to both the fake article and the Seller that is selling it. That way DDR membership is educated to the fake article and to the Seller that is attempting to sell it. Serves the same purpose, but doesn't open up a Thread that could be misused by individuals as a forum for "Venting" by members who feel they have one time been "Burned" or mistreated by a Seller, when there may be more to the story. Shipping costs come to mind ..... there always seems to be issues with shipping costs, and some Buyers seem absolutely livid over paying a couple of extra cents or dollars to receive a valuable collectible piece that was sold at discount. Yes, conceivably the Seller is making up for his discount loss, but is it noteworthy enough to call that Seller out as being a crook?

That brings up a second point. Initiating a thread about a Seller and an article being sold that is clearly fake, for discussion brings no possibility of being held accountable in a law suit for comments that can clearly be supported through clear concise evidence.
On the other hand, opening a thread to collect a list of "Bad" sellers in my opinion, will. There has to be supporting factual evidence. We can't just create a thread and start listing Sellers as bad because each of us thinks so.

See the picture? Ralph and I will be spending all our time monitoring that one Thread, and cleaning up the comments that are general and questionable, and could even be suspect as material misrepresentation in a court of law (Civil Law). We have to be careful to not open the WAF and ourselves to law suits.

We've had very good Threads initiated by members on this forum whereby both Sellers and fake articles they are attempting to pass off have been openly discussed.

I would recommend membership make note of these threads, and the fake articles, and build a personal library, if they wish.
That is what I do.

.........

Okay, this is not a dead thread. Above are my thoughts and observations. I very much want to hear from other members on their thoughts and observations. I'm open to further discussion ......

Then Ralph and I can better analyze the issue and hopefully, come to the right (safe) conclusion that will best serve all of us, and insure the WAF and its interests are served and protected as well.

Okay - more discussion ......

[uscob]

The Idea was, not to blame anybody but to let people know that they have to watch their Stuff carefully.
Like today I saw West German Water Police Bullion Cap Badges with an added repainted Reichsbahn Bulls eye as original KVP Era. The next are Dederon Embroidered Generals Cap Badges & Collar Patches as originals. They never existed. It will be a very long list to mark such Items. Fire Service Collar Patches as rare ZV and so on. If you're a newbie, Copy the Picture and Post it for discussion before you get burned. Back to the Generals. 35 Euros for an original Set is a steal, but for the fakes and not only repros it's a way to much. Was just an Idea to warn unexperienced Collectors. Michael, you and I know the Crooks, but sometimes they also have good stuff.
So again, don't get me wrong with this Idea.

[BowlofRice]

Hey, I have a question about a German site I found a few days ago...Are they legit? It seems too good to be true. Their catalogue is massive; they have many sizes available (it's good for me, because in hats I am a size 60), and many products, some of which I never knew existed. Some of their products are listed as reproductions.

I don't know too much German so I can't read much of the site, but can you guys check it out and tell me if it's good?

Here's the site:

nva.4mg.com/

[uscob]

Hey, I have a question about a German site I found a few days ago...Are they legit? It seems too good to be true. Their catalogue is massive; they have many sizes available (it's good for me, because in hats I am a size 60), and many products, some of which I never knew existed. Some of their products are listed as reproductions.

I don't know too much German so I can't read much of the site, but can you guys check it out and tell me if it's good?

Here's the site:

nva.4mg.com/

Minimum Order 50 Euros.
Only small quantities for collectors.
No Quantity update or easy basket funktion. You have to write a letter or mail, and have to wait for availability.
I had to do with them many years ago, they tried to get everything as a bargain to sell it for high end prices.
If we don't have an Item, give us 8 weeks to get it. Means we only offer pictures and after you paid, we try to get the Stuff.

[torstenbel]

I think this has been brought up a couple of times before. The problem is that the subject matter is subjective, and people can sometimes be biased. For example, there is a certain "Well Known Seller" that is highly respected and recommended by some; while there are others that would post on such a thread, that this Seller is a crook. The same is going to happen with other Sellers as well. Where do you draw the line?......

there are threads like this in large numbers about all kinds of sellers elsewhere on WAF ... not sure, why it should be a problem to have threads like that here? cheers, torsten.

[Mike G.]

Torsten,

The other threads address individual occurrences. The difference is it is now being suggested we have a "Sticky" thread dedicated to listing by name the so called "Bad" sellers.

I think we are walking a fine line here when we do that. I much prefer when there is an occurrence of questionable sale or conduct by a given Seller, it be posted and discussed. This provides a fair and balanced opportunity to air out concerns and observations. Simply listing a bunch of names on a long list presents all the concerns already discussed heretofore.

By addressing each occurrence on a case by case basis, members can based upon the dialogue decide for themselves if that Seller is really just plain all out bad or it was just a case of a one time goof up and not indicative overall of the Seller or his manner of doing business.

Smart readers can begin building their own personal catalog of "Bad" Sellers" to avoid like the plague.

I'm very uncomfortable with having a sticky thread where there is no dialogue and members just start adding Sellers they deem to be "Bad". I can see that going wrong in so many different ways it makes me dizzy.

Now I'll tell you what would be much more beneficial to all, and would pose no problem whatever. A thread in which only "Good" Sellers are listed. Why not go that direction? Then members will have a catalog of potential sources for safely acquiring East German memorabilia and building up their respective collections.

[Ralph P]

At the moment I continue to be with Mike on this. There are a lot of good dealers out there and I would hate to see a member to post one bad comment that could effect a future buyer or dealer. For example a buyer might have a complaint about a dealer in England and post something bad about the dealer...which a short time later it is worked out between the buyer and dealer, however now there is a negative post about the dealer on the forum. And now the dealer is asking for it to be removed.

[Thälmannpionier]

Now I'll tell you what would be much more beneficial to all, and would pose no problem whatever. A thread in which only "Good" Sellers are listed. Why not go that direction? Then members will have a catalog of potential sources for safely acquiring East German memorabilia and building up their respective collections.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

I'm with Michael and Ralph on this one. Impossible to police a thread like this. One man's copy could be another man's original. We might end up with a thread that goes on for ever and creates more disention than useful information. If you are in doubt do what Bowlofrice did. Ask a specific question. People PM me frequently to ask if I have dealt with, or have any comments to make, on a specific dealer. That is another option for asking a question.

Regards,

Gordon