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**Jan Klaassen** · 01-26-2012, 08:15 AM

I don't think they would've had a patch at all? Apart from the "G" on Grenzpolizei uniforms, obiously.
Volkspolizei was, prior to 1956, a much wider name then just for police units. There was the Kasernierte Volkspolizei, Volkspolizei-See, and so on...

However I do like your work and would like to be proven wrong

**Paul Spain** · 01-26-2012, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Jan Klaassen View Post

I don't think they would've had a patch at all? Apart from the "G" on Grenzpolizei uniforms, obiously.
Volkspolizei was, prior to 1956, a much wider name then just for police units. There was the Kasernierte Volkspolizei, Volkspolizei-See, and so on...

However I do like your work and would like to be proven wrong

Me too, However should one of the oval type ever turn up on any site for sale
we know it might be in the thousands of dollars range due to the shear rareity of it if it could indeed be proven to be a real issued piece

, In such a case as that I would settle for a high quality repo for my police collection

The more I thought about it I think why wouldn't they have had some non Staatswappen patches because this star design is found in some old pics of patrol vehicles too so stands to reason they would have had it on a Schupo patch

.

**Paul Spain** · 01-26-2012, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Jan Klaassen View Post

I don't think they would've had a patch at all? Apart from the "G" on Grenzpolizei uniforms, obiously.

There is one sure fire way to confirm a yes or no here, If it stumps Torsten and our other Ossis

.

Then in such case I can print out the pics and send a short letter to the fellow in IPA I used to deal with and get patches from:

Jürgen Schedalke

Member of IPA

Tannenallee 51C Reinbek 5

He is a retired Hamburg cop and has over 750 hats,patches,and badges from around the World. He was where I got my DDR Tunic patch (which I put on my VoPo tunic).

**ehrentitle** · 01-26-2012, 09:40 AM

If they exist they would be in Klaus Walther's Uniformeffekten der bewaffneten Organe der DDR Volume I on the MdI insignia. I don't have a copy here at work, but perhaps one of our other members can consult it.

**SCHUPO** · 01-26-2012, 10:01 AM

Paul,

My understanding is that the only police patch worn on the early blue uniform was the "G" in a shield for the Grenzpolizei. I believe that the two patches you show with the tri-color center are probably fantasy patches. I was in Dresden just after the fall of the wall and they were changing over from the DDR patch to the new patches but they could not get enough of them to change everyone out. At any rate, they were still wearing the old ones in a wear out period until they could get enough supplies to replace them all.

**Paul Spain** · 01-26-2012, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by SCHUPO View Post

Paul,

I believe that the two patches you show with the tri-color center are probably fantasy patches.

Not fantasy patches, They are photo edited pieces to show what the pre Staatswappen patch may have looked like if it turns out they had one, I made the oval one and standard shape one by editing the 1958-1990 Schupo patch, I created them in a OLD program (PhotoImpact 4.2 from 1995) I have never as of yet saw any patches like these on a site for sale..Yet.

If one of the 2 styles turns up somewhere with some proof of it's existance on either Ebay or German Ebay it will definatly sky rocket in price due to it's rareity if proven a genuine piece.

**Jan Klaassen** · 01-26-2012, 12:07 PM

Well, the patches with the German tricolore were used during 1990, but I cannot believe they did so before 1958/60/61 (is 1958 documented as start date of the first patches in use?)...

**Paul Spain** · 01-26-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Jan Klaassen View Post

Well, the patches with the German tricolore were used during 1990, but I cannot believe they did so before 1958/60/61 (is 1958 documented as start date of the first patches in use?)...

I don't know when the police shoulder patches were first issued but I know the Staatswappen was added to the flag in 1958 so I assume that the standard patches would have been issued about then or maybe by 1960 at least, What is intresting though is that even though they waited so long to issue a flag with the Staatswappen it did appear way before that on their coins but in a diffrent form than what was finally used:

Coins began having the emblem in 1950 I think,I can at least trace it to 1952 on them as per my Pfennig.

The patch for police for 1990-1991 was diffrent than the old non Staatswappen ones I replicated in my pics although the Grepos did use the style just a lighter color green and the words GRENZSCHUTZ, Here is the 1990-1991 police patch:

Grepo patches:

They also had a wavy flag design too.

As far as I know though for 1990-1991 VolksPolizei only was issued the Schupo and (other divisons) patch with the black,red,gold,bullseye design.

**Mike G.** · 01-26-2012, 06:46 PM

Paul Spain: Quote: “I have always wondered what the standard VolksPolizei patches would have looked like prior to 1958 (when the Staatswappen was introduced to the DDR flag) I have searched far and wide on Google, Ebay,German Ebay,and here of course,..Nothing..I then came to a conclusion that maybe they didn't use patches prior to 1958 but after going here:

http://www.ddr-hautnah.de/index.htm?...ate/schule.htm

and seeing a Helfer Der VolksPolizei arm band just like the common ones only older and without the Staatswappen:
I got to thinking they very well would have had a 1949-1958 non Staatswappen police patch too. I have came up with 2 possible designs that may have been issued to the police: Unquote”

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Response:

Firstly, I am having great difficulty comprehending the purpose for this thread. I would certainly be a lot more comfortable if the comments were supported by providence of some sort.

I am concerned with the statement of fact that between 1949 and 1958 “The DDR very well did have a “Non-Staatswappen Police Patch”; after which two hypothetical designs bearing the "Tri-color Shield" are offered for example, and the additional comment is made that should one of these appear for sale, they will fetch thousands of dollars. I cannot respond to your having “Hit-the-Nail-on-the-Head” as conjectured, but I feel like someone certainly hit me on the head with a sledge-hammer.

I’ve gone back and reviewed similar prior posts on this forum and I am seeing a trend with respect to these types of threads and posts. This is disconcerting as it brings into question the veracity of so called factual information appearing on this forum and otherwise casts a shadow on the credibility of the DDR collecting community as a whole. I sincerely hope this trend does not continue.

I very much wish to see the source or sources that formulate the basis from which you are drawing your factual conclusion that the DDR did in fact have a non-staatswappen “Tri-color Shield” Polizei shoulder patch that was worn between 1949 and 1958.

In the interim, I offer this response:

The DDR did have a Police Patch that was worn prior to 1958. It however did not encompass the “Tri-color Shield”. It was worn by the Grenzpolizei between 1950 and 1952.

Grenzpolizei Shoulder Patch examples worn 1950-52.
The left most example was worn by Officers.
The example appearing to the right was worn by Anwaeter and Wachmeisterdienstgrade.

Attached Files

**Mike G.** · 01-26-2012, 06:48 PM

Schutzpolizei Should Patch examples. From left to right …..
1968-90 Green & Blue versions: Wachtmeisterdienstgrade der Schultzpolizei
1972-90 Green & Blue versions: Wachtmeisterdienstgrade der Schultzpolizei

Attached Files

Schutzpolizei-68-90-and-72-.jpg (73.4 KB, 91 views)

**Mike G.** · 01-26-2012, 06:50 PM

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ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="******45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> From left to right …..
1983-90 Green: Wachtmeisterdienstgrade Betriebsschutz
1968-90 Green & Blue versions: Abschnittsbevollmaechtgter (ARV)
1990 Light Green: Wachtmeister and Unterfuehrerdienstgrade der
VP-Bereitschaften

Attached Files

DDR-VP-Arm-Patch-X-3.jpg (54.6 KB, 92 views)

**Mike G.** · 01-26-2012, 06:53 PM

Lastly,

So there is no confusion should someone come across these in their search; Here are several "Experimental" DDR Polizei shoulder patches. They were never implemented for wear. Some are kind of neat though, particularly the ones for Police in East Berlin.

Attached Files

**Mike G.** · 01-26-2012, 06:53 PM

Last one (also experimental and never implemented.

Attached Files

Experimental-Patch-Ex-3.jpg (58.2 KB, 91 views)

**Paul Spain** · 01-26-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View Post

Firstly, I am having great difficulty comprehending the purpose for this thread. I would certainly be a lot more comfortable if the comments were supported by providence of some sort.

I am concerned with the statement of fact that between 1949 and 1958 “The DDR very well did have a “Non-Staatswappen Police Patch”; after which two hypothetical designs bearing the "Tri-color Shield" are offered for example, and the additional comment is made that should one of these appear for sale, they will fetch thousands of dollars. I cannot respond to your having “Hit-the-Nail-on-the-Head” as conjectured, but I feel like someone certainly hit me on the head with a sledge-hammer.

I never said I had proof they exist in Non Staatswappen I said I THINK they very well would have had a version..Please don't take this thread the wrong way..I am hoping to find out if a older version without the Staatswappen exists but from what you have said apparently only the G grepo patch was issued to police prior to the Staatswappen SCHUTZPOLIZEI and other divisions police patches.

Also from what you said I know if I ever see any patch made like my photo edited pieces shown for sale on any site I'll certainly point out they're fantasy now that I for sure know there was no real examples of them and possibly have the items removed by Ebay (if on Ebay) I only made the examples as a theory as to what any non Staatswappen police patches would look like but it has now been proven they had none except G for grepos.

I could kick my self a thousand times over now, I had a chance late last year to get that first Berlin patch on the left, Ignorance prevailed how ever due to me thinking..Oh there'll be another chance at it..I'll get it later..Now it's gone and I don't see the seller getting no more anytime soon

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Pre 1958 VolksPolizei patches

Pre 1958 VolksPolizei patches

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