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**Gordon Craig** · 10-02-2011, 06:24 PM

cwl,

I assume you are talking about the cap with the visor? If so, the caps are being worn by members of the Kampfgruppe who often worked with the BG. I don't remember the specific name of that cap and I am about 1000 km from my reference books so someone else will have to answer that particular question.

Regards,

Gordon

**cwl** · 10-02-2011, 06:35 PM

I Purchased This Pic Off of Ebay 2 years ago

This was taken on the EAST side of Checkpoint Charlie. The border guards are wearing caps, I think?

**RedCatcher1986** · 10-02-2011, 07:00 PM

Heres 3 different types of the hat in question:

Via: gowenmilitaria.com

NVA Skimuetze/M43-style Cap

Description: The East German armed forces (NVA) continued to use a fabric cap with fold-over earflaps originating with the World War 2 Wehrmacht. The East Germans called it a “Ski Cap,” but many collectors know it as an M43-style cap. The “NVA”-marked cap went through several changes of fabric and cockade insignia over the years, but the basic design of the cap remained continuous. The caps offered here, issued in the late 1970s/1980’s, are made out of smooth (gabardine) olive drab color fabric, with button-down ear flaps and a small silver cockade displaying the DDR coat of arms. The caps have a cloth lining with 4 vent holes and a plastic sweatband.

Condition: Mint.

http://gowenmilitaria.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=FSC

Early Fire Police/Feuerwehr M43-style Cap

Early Fire Police/Feuerwehr M43-style Cap
Description: The East Germans called this type winter cap Skimuetzen, but most collectors know it as M43 style. The cap came into use around 1946-48, and remained in use until around 1961. It is a private purchase cap, of noticeably higher quality than later Police caps, and is piped in purple/lavender around the top rim. The fabric is 90% wool. This version does not have ear flaps. The cap was originally worn with the cockades of the 5 states/Laendern constituting the DDR.
Reference source: Zoller, Korpfdeckungen: DDR, pages 21-22.

Size: 54.

Condition: Mint.

http://gowenmilitaria.com/Merchant2/...duct_Code=PFS1

Kampfgruppen/Combat Groups of the Working Class Skimuetze/M43-style Cap: 1962-1990

Description: The East Germans called them “Ski Caps,” but to most collectors they are an M43-style cap. The Kampfgruppen wore the same fabric cap with fold-over earflaps as the armed forces (NVA), except that the Kampfgruppen caps were marked “MdI” instead of “NVA.” Both caps originated with the Wehrmacht in World War 2. Like the “NVA”-marked cap, the MdI-marked caps went through several changes of fabric and cockade insignia over the years, but the basic design of the cap remained unchanged. The late 1970s/1980’s-issued caps offered here are made out of smooth, weatherized olive drab fabric, with button-down ear flaps and a small silver cockade with the DDR coat of arms. The caps have a cloth lining with 4 vent holes and a plastic sweatband. Interior markings are excellent.

Condition: Mint.

http://gowenmilitaria.com/Merchant2/...duct_Code=OHK1

**BowlofRice** · 10-02-2011, 07:02 PM

Are you talking about this hat?
http://uniformen-gt.blogspot.com/201...izier-der.html
I don't know how much it's worth, but since it's quite old (late 50's-early 60's) it might be worth a lot. I also don't know where one can be acquired.

The hat I'm talking about is probably the one in the second photo, but the hat RedCatcher1986 posted is the right one for the first photo.

**cwl** · 10-02-2011, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by BowlofRice View Post

Are you talking about this hat?
http://uniformen-gt.blogspot.com/201...izier-der.html
I don't know how much it's worth, but since it's quite old (late 50's-early 60's) it might be worth a lot. I also don't know where one can be acquired.

The hat I'm talking about is probably the one in the second photo, but the hat RedCatcher1986 posted is the right one for the first photo.

YES, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE THE ONE IN THE CHECKPOINT CHARLIE PIC I POSTED.

**cwl** · 10-02-2011, 07:10 PM

THANK YOU Redcatcher1986, those are some great looking caps!

**RedCatcher1986** · 10-02-2011, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by cwl View Post

THANK YOU Redcatcher1986, those are some great looking caps!

Not a problem CWL check in with Bob Gowen at Gowenmilitaria.com

Hes a good guy and hell give you a lot of good information to go with your purchase

**uscob** · 10-02-2011, 11:21 PM

Ski Caps are the ones without the Top Flap and
Baschlikmütze is the one with the Flap.
Kampfgruppen Caps are quite cheap when you have the late models with the DDR Cocade but quite expensive when you have a Period one with the KG Cocade with the Flag and Rifle.
In different Lot's of Caps I found only one old with about 500 of the new style.

**friede** · 10-03-2011, 12:49 AM

the cape what is shown on the 1st picture is a Kampfgruppen-cape - the Bordergard (at this time Grenzpolizei) wears a cap in the same style but in khaki collor with the black-red-gold shield wappen! it looks same as the cap in the last pictures (there is a green for Volkspolizei) but in khaki !

NVA has the same but in gray with the larger Emblem in Aluminium for the Filz / Mannschaften
or with cloth type for the Officers in Kammgarn

**uscob** · 10-03-2011, 02:28 AM

Just to be back to the basic Question, The KG Caps are called officially "Baschlikmütze" as the have a flap on Top. Skimütze is the M-43 Type with NO top Flaps. That was also the Name for them in Western Germany as they didn't used the Top Flap Style Baschlikmützen.
For the Prices: I sell the Period ones from 50 Euros on, depending on size and condition and the Modern ones from 5 Euro on. Please note that the Period ones had a diferent fabric, so you can't use a late for an early one just by replacing the cocade.

**uscob** · 10-03-2011, 02:34 AM

Just looked at the Gowens Link and saw that he has some mistakes in the description. For example he's writing that the NVA marked ones are for the Armed Forces, that's not right. They're Zivilverteidigung Winter Caps for the Work Suit. In summer they used the side Caps.

**Gordon Craig** · 10-03-2011, 05:37 AM

Nico,

Thanks for your comments. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding in this thread as to what cap we are talking about and who was wearing what as referred to in the first photo and it gets more confusing as one goes along.
The comments taken from Gowen's site are incorrect in a number of places but it would only confuse this thread more to go into that.
We would need to post pictures of all of the caps to straighten things out here. I'm a long way from home or I would attempt to do that.

Regards,

Gordon

**cwl** · 10-03-2011, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Gordon Craig View Post

Nico,

Thanks for your comments. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding in this thread as to what cap we are talking about and who was wearing what as referred to in the first photo and it gets more confusing as one goes along.
The comments taken from Gowen's site are incorrect in a number of places but it would only confuse this thread more to go into that.
We would need to post pictures of all of the caps to straighten things out here. I'm a long way from home or I would attempt to do that.

Regards,

Gordon

OK, probably my fault.

The cap I am interested in is the one being worn by the two border guards / border police who are inspecting / interrogating the Volkswagon and occupants who are attempting to cross into West Berlin in my post #3.

Sorry for causing any confusion.

**Gordon Craig** · 10-04-2011, 05:58 AM

cwl,

The cap being worn by the BG is called a "shiffschen" in German because of its boat shape.

Regards,

Gordon

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