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**Jan Klaassen** · 02-17-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View Post

Jan,

You might wish to consider opening up dialogue with the former East German Paratroopers. They have their own internet site.
Kevin can probably help you get on it.

They can most probably verify beyond all doubt whether the beret in question is a post DDR reproduction, or not.

Something to consider.

I would very much like to open a dialogue with them, partly because I came across yet another 'false' beret (this time with the sort of yellowish printing on the inside). Though not conclusive, it made me doubt; there seem to be SO many of these probably repro-berets, that I would really like to get a conclusive answer.
Now I have found a NVA FJ Forum on the internet, but I thought it'd be a bit blunt just to register there... Are there any 'strings to be pulled' before I place pictures and questions there? Is there some contact with members of that website already?

Thanks for any information

**ehrentitle** · 02-17-2012, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Jan Klaassen View Post

I would very much like to open a dialogue with them, partly because I came across yet another 'false' beret (this time with the sort of yellowish printing on the inside). Though not conclusive, it made me doubt; there seem to be SO many of these probably repro-berets, that I would really like to get a conclusive answer.
Now I have found a NVA FJ Forum on the internet, but I thought it'd be a bit blunt just to register there... Are there any 'strings to be pulled' before I place pictures and questions there? Is there some contact with members of that website already?

Thanks for any information

Jan, I'm a member of the NVA FJ Forum as are a few others here. A similar discussion has already taken place on that forum back in August of last year with the same indicators of a reproduction beret discussed there as in this forum.

If you search "Para Berets" on this forum there is ample information and photos showing the difference from original and reproduction berets.

I presently have 16 berets, 13 are orignials but I've identified 3 as reproductions using the indicators below:

1) Sweat Shield: The edge outside the stitching is narrower than on originals. And/or the circular stamp printed under the sweat shield is not white or appears to to be applied directly to the plastic or the sweat shied. On some copies the sweat shield is not as stiff as the original.

2) Grommets: The pair of grommets on each side of the beret are noticeably larger that on originals

3) Tie: The tie at the back of the beret to adjust sizing has a synthetic feel, whereas originals look and feel more like cloth.

4) Sweatband: On originals there very little leather past the stitching on the inside of the beret. Reproductions have a noticeable strip of leather beyond the stitching. On some reproductions the leather has a shine, originals have a dull look and are usually more supple.

5) Color, Lining, Weight and Feel: Especially on the orange beret there are color differences, the lining material is different, often more shiny on originals. Also many reproductions don't have the feel of of original berets. Reproductions are noticeably lighter and don't have as much padding under the cockade.

6) Smell: DDR made items normally had a distinctive smell that anyone who has collected DDR/NVA stuff will immediately recognize.

7) Black-light Test: If you have a black-light test your berets with it. Original berets do no glow under black-light but parts of some reproductions do, especially the stitching and possible the insignia on the outside.

This applies only to later berets, there are earlier berets made before around 1984 that do not have a tie in the back, they have a leather sweat band that goes around the entire beret.

**Jan Klaassen** · 02-17-2012, 01:12 PM

Thanks for you reply!

Before actually commenting, I would like to make clear that I'm not at all testing or doubting any of your expertise, nor that of any other member of this forum that discussed the berets before (as I get the fealing that my reasons for asking again (and again...) are somewhat misunderstood)!

However I'm usually doubting a lot of things when it is not documented (they teach that at the uni, and somehow it sticks on -.-'). Are these differences documented somewhere (or are original features like small grommets, cloth tie and large edge outside sweat shield stitching, for that matter), to give us 99% certainity that these possible reproductions are actually reproductions, and not just another way of production? Perhaps, in the most extreme case, the berets that we think are original, might actually be repros, and repros originals? Without documentation, comparing could only give us just a little bit of proof...
Those were my doubts from about halfway down the last page of this discussion :P

But, as this discussion has been held at the FJ Forum before; what exactly did the former paras conclude? If they agree with the points listed here (1-7), as I'm most willing to do, and they agree on the fact that berets with different features (like the synthetic tie, strange liner etcetera) are in fact post-DDR produced, then it's close to the 99% certainity, and we can easily conclude the whole matter

Thanks again, this is a most usefull thread!

**ehrentitle** · 02-17-2012, 01:34 PM

Jan - There is no definitive reference on this topic that I know of. However there are at least 3-4 forum members here who have extensive experience in this collecting field. In my collection there are berets that I've had since at least 1990 that I would deem original. Others came directly from a US Special Forces NCO that shut down / inspected the 40th Luftsturmregiment "Willi Sänger" and received the berets directly from the units stores.

If you want to read the beret thread on the NVA FJ Forum see the link below. Most of the discussion is between me and a fellow member of this forum:

http://www.nva-fallschirmjaeger.de/f...=7424&pageNo=2

**Mike G.** · 02-17-2012, 01:51 PM

Jan,

Like Kevin, I have quite a few Para Berets in my personal collection. Some I acquired while in Germany and in Berlin shortly after the fall of the wall. They are for certain authentic. Like Kevin, I also have a couple two or three that are reproduction.

The berets that are being discussed as reproduction, have all recently come onto the market.

Having examples of the real ones by which to make comparison, there is no doubt when handling the reproduction examples, that that is exactly what they are - reproductions. Someone, somewhere is producing these. Not hard to do.

When I was in Berlin at the fall of the wall, within a year, the people engaged in selling NVA uniforms and such, ran out of the NVA Navy Ushankas. Most of the sellers were Turks. In 1990, they had started turning out reproduction, black in color, NVA Navy Ushankas. Every example that could be found for sale in Berlin by 1990 was a reproduction. A Turk I befriended who had a sister working at the factory where they were turning these reproductions out, actually showed me the clothing factory where the reproductions were being produced.

Nico I'm sure can back me up on this.

So it does not surprise me that the berets are being reproduced. What is unfortunate, is that it is very difficult at times to tell what is what from pictures on ebay. That is how a couple two or three came to be in my collection.

Jan,
I can say that having both types, when you have them in your hands, they look and feel totally different from one another.

I hope this helps.

**Jan Klaassen** · 02-17-2012, 03:10 PM

They do indeed feel different, and I do indeed agree that they are repros (something I had taken for granted indeed, after all your comments!). Pity there isn't any documentation on it, but receiving some from a NCO that visited the barracks himself seems +1 for the original ones! Perhaps it's just me; perhaps I should rely even more on fellow collectors' comments and less on proof in documents

Thanks for all help!

**Marc Sherriff** · 02-17-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by ehrentitle View Post

If you want to read the beret thread on the NVA FJ Forum see the link below. Most of the discussion is between me and a fellow member of this forum:

http://www.nva-fallschirmjaeger.de/f...=7424&pageNo=2

Access denied

Marc.

**ehrentitle** · 02-17-2012, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sherriff View Post

Access denied

Marc.

Sorry, I guess that part of the forum is only available to members.

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