NVA Panzers

[vacollector]

Most of the images I see of the NVA panzer units, I see them equipt with the Russian T-72. Did the DDR ever receive the T-80 before the fall of the wall? Did the DDR ever produce a tank, like how the West Germans built the Leopard series?

[torstenbel]

As far as I know, the NVA never got anything more modern than the T72M1 and the DDR never made any Panzer themselves. Cheers, Torsten.

[RedCatcher1986]

Everything Ive seen the DDR didnt operate the T80 before the fall of the Wall, however they seem to have had vast numbers of earlier T-55, T-62 and T-72 tank variants as well as numerous BMPs and BRDMs.

[GREENEDUDLEY]

If I remember correctly, the Russians used the T-64 as one of their main tanks and the T-62 and T-72 were produced as an export tank to be sold to other countries. I use to have to know this but it has been years.

[Don D.]

If I remember correctly, the Russians used the T-64 as one of their main tanks and the T-62 and T-72 were produced as an export tank to be sold to other countries.

Correct!

[vacollector]

It's interesting, that they would stay with the T-72 and not upgrade. When compaired to the upgrading of other eleiments of the NVA. The Air Force was beginning the recieve their MiG-29's. They also upgraded their SAM systems, which in turn the Bundeswehr returned to Russia after the fall. I wonder if the Russians didn't have the T-80 even ready before it all ended?

[DaveM]

cost

From what I have read, towards the end the DDR was having great financial difficulty procuring big ticket items like MiG-29s. Perhaps that is why the T-55 was still in service in larger numbers than the T-72, and a modernization program had been put in place to upgrade the existing NVA T-55 fleet.

The NVA only used the T-34, JS-2, T-55 and T-72.

[DaveM]

add PT-76 to that list.

[Mike G.]

Dave M. is quite correct. The NVA never had the T-62 Tank in their inventory.

Good catch on the JS-2 Dave. A lot of people did not know this, as there are few photos of it in use in the GDR.

[vacollector]

The T-62 & T-64 units would have been Soviet. The T-64 was used as the main battle tank for the Soviets over the T-72. I read that the NVA didn't even get Russian versions of the T-72, but stripped down Polish and Czech built versions that lacked the resin filled ceramic layers in the gun turret.

[Dag]

If I remember correctly, the Russians used the T-64 as one of their main tanks and the T-62 and T-72 were produced as an export tank to be sold to other countries. I use to have to know this but it has been years.

This is only partially correct. The T-62 is a further development of the T-55 (mainly new gun and, because of this, requirement to re-design the chassis). It was exported but not introduced into the NVA. The reason was mainly a question of logistics: The improvements did not make it significantly better compared to the T-55 but the logistics would have to be set up to support two different types of tanks (especially in terms of the gun and the ammunition).

Also, The T-72 is NOT (and has never been) an export variant of the T-64 or a tank 'just for export'.
I think there is a thread in which this topic has already been discussed.
The tanks are very different and both tanks were used in the Soviet army in parallel- with all the problems ref logistics due to completely different drive-train (engine, road wheels, tracks) also different auto-loader and other subsystems.
A good description of the 'battle' between two design bureaus can be found in S Zaloga: Soviet/Russian Armour and Artillery design Practices: 1945 to Present.

Finally, in case someone is inteersted: The T-80 was used by Soviet Guard Tank units from about 1984 and replaced the T-64 (only used for training).

[Dag]

From what I have read, towards the end the DDR was having great financial difficulty procuring big ticket items like MiG-29s. Perhaps that is why the T-55 was still in service in larger numbers than the T-72, and a modernization program had been put in place to upgrade the existing NVA T-55 fleet.

Only the regiments of the two tank divisions were equipped with T-72 due to their potential role in a conflict. However, many earlier T-72 were upgraded to T-72M standard (not necessarily reflected in NATO designation!) during routine overhaul in Neubrandenburg or Grossenhain.
Due to significant increases in price (and, in parallel increasing quality problems with the vehicles, especially those built in CSSR and Polen), it was decided to upgrade the existing T-55 to the latets model. This approach was also taken in the Soviet Army were T-55' went through an upgrade program (same in Poland and the CSSR, and they produced T-72!).
Some of the upgraded T-55 were even better equipped then the T-72M1' as they could fire ATGM.
The cost were lower in comparison to a new T-72. I think, the ratio was 3 upgrades to one new T-72 but I have to check this.

[Dag]

add PT-76 to that list.

and T-54

[Dag]

It's interesting, that they would stay with the T-72 and not upgrade. When compaired to the upgrading of other eleiments of the NVA. The Air Force was beginning the recieve their MiG-29's. They also upgraded their SAM systems, which in turn the Bundeswehr returned to Russia after the fall. I wonder if the Russians didn't have the T-80 even ready before it all ended?

Actually, the most up-to-date equipment was returned before 3 October 1990! That rendered some of the supposedly new equipment a bit useless, especially when certain important parts are missing.
To stay with tanks: The laser guided ATMs for T-55s were delivered to two tank regiments (4 and 8) in November 1989 and were returned to the Soviet Army/Soviet Union in December 1989!

[Mike G.]

Hi Dag,

Excellent additional information, especially regarding the return of key components and ATGMs back to Soviet control, prior to unification. I did not know this.