Basic question: Schirmmütze

[JS1]

hi All

I have a very basic question regarding the visor caps of the ground forces.

What were the differences between officers - NCO's - career soldiers - enlisted men, in terms of fabric, insignia, chin strap, .. and how would this effect the units in Berlin ? Did different regulations exist over time, starting from the introduction of the grey uniforms ?

thanks for your help

Johan

[Rev462]

OK, I'll try to keep this as concise as I can.

In the early days (1956 - 61) of the NVA, EM & NCO ranks wore hats made from the wooly material called "Streichgarn" and officers wore hats made from gabardine material "Kammgarn". EM/NCO wreaths were stamped metal while officer wreaths were embroided bullion thread. EM/NCO ranks wore the black chinstrap while officers wore the silver, braided cord. Visor hats were piped in different branch of service colors (Waffenfarben) and the cockade was the yellow/red/black "bullseye". EM/NCO cockades were enamel & officer cockades were embroidered bullion.

After 1961, all branches of service changed to white Waffenfarbe on the visor hats (& tunics) and the bullseye cockade was replaced by the Staatswappen. Material & insignia otherwise remained unchanged.

In 1962 the NVA - Wachregiment was formed and members were authorized to wear officer quality uniforms (Also the Erich Weinert Ensemble), then in 1964 career NCO's & officer candidates were authorized to wear officer quality uniforms, which meant that their visor hats were constructed from Kammgarn material with EM wreath & chinstrap. The top 2 NCO ranks were also authorized to wear officer wreaths on their visor hats.

After 1965, embroidered bullion was phased out replaced with stamped metal. The design of the stamped metal wreath was intended to mimic the texture of embroidered bullion.

There were some additional changes in construction of the EM/NCO wreath (going from 2-piece to 1 - piece construction) and the chinstrap (going from a functioning, adjustable strap to a simple, single piece strap) as cost saving measures.

So, in a nutshell, for EM & NCO ranks after 1964 we have:

* EM & non-career NCO's in regular units: wooly hats (Streichgarn) with EM wreath & black chinstrap.

* Career NCO's, officer candidates, all EM & NCO ranks of the Wachregiments, music students & the Erich Weinert Ensemble: gabardine hats (Kammgarn) with EM wreath & chinstrap. Top 2 NCO ranks authorized to wear officer wreaths.

[JS1]

Hi Rev462

Many thanks for this great overview !!! Much appreciated.

JS1

[Mike G.]

Nicely articulated and explained, Rick.
Well done.

[Gene T]

I also have a couple of basic questions about Schirmmuetze that I've been waiting for an opportunity like this to ask:

Did the officer's chin-cord start out with an anti-clockwise twist "\\\\\\\\\\\\" or a clockwise twist "////////////" ?

Given that pre-1945 chin-cords were invariably braided in the clockwise manner, while late production DDR chin-cords (with five-stranded slider lacing) are all anti-clockwise, it seems reasonable to assume that clockwise DDR chin-cords predated the anti-clockwise ones.

But if this directional switch was an intentional design modification rather than the product of operator error at some chin-cord factory, when was the relevant directive implemented?

I noticed with great interest that both of the General caps shown in that exquisite subdued uniform thread had anti-clockwise chin-cords (but with four-stranded lacing on the sliders). While these chin-cords appear to be non-metallic, there is no reason to suspect that they were made according to a different pattern than their contemporary metallic peers.

Does this mean that the directional switch had already taken place by the early '60s?

Or, perhaps anti-clockwise and clockwise variants coexisted for a period, before they were superseded by the final anti-clockwise model with the five-stranded slider lacing?

I used to wonder if an early cap was put together whenever I notice that it had an anti-clockwise chin-cord. Now I find myself questioning whether my assumptions are founded on a myth or just plain ignorance.

Can someone please enlighten me? There was an older thread where someone had done a meticulous study on the dimensional differences between the clockwise and anti-clockwise cords using a micrometer, but I don't recall the question of whether one type of cords replaced the other (and within what time frame) was systematically addressed.


Gene T

[torstenbel]

* Career NCO's, officer candidates, all EM & NCO ranks of the Wachregiments, music students & the Erich Weinert Ensemble: gabardine hats (Kammgarn) with EM wreath & chinstrap. Top 2 NCO ranks authorized to wear officer wreaths.

Officer students did wear officer wreath with EM chinstraps from day 1 at officer college. Cheers, Torsten.

[Rev462]

Gene:

Although officer chincords with the right-handed spiral (//////) were indeed more common in earlier years, cords with the left-handed spiral (\\\\\)l were also used. I have no firm information about when they switched to virtually exclusive use of the left-handed spiral, but from observations I would say the transition occurred in the early to mid 70's.

A more reliable indicator of vintage is the construction of the sliders. It's hard to describe in words, and I'm unable to post photos at the moment, but if you think of the face of the slider as a checkerboard, you'll see that early vintage sliders have alternating bands 3 squares wide, while later vintage sliders are only 2 squares wide. I'll attempt to illustrate:

Early slider:

|###|
|###|//////////////
|###|/////////////

Late slider:

|##|\\\\\\\\\\
|##|\\\\\\\\\\\

I hope that gets at least some of my point across!

Torsten:

Thanks for the correction. You learn something new every day.

[Gene T]

Thanks for the elaboration, Rick! Yes, I understand what you are saying about the sliders perfectly. I too was looking for a succinct way to make a distinction between these two types of sliders, and settled on the difference in the number of strands within each of your 'squares': The three-squared sliders have four strands per square (because they are braided using a four-stranded lace), while the later twin-squared sliders have five strands per square.

Until I saw the chin-cord on your subdued general's cap, I've actually never had a definitive encounter with a left-handed spiral (anti-clockwise twist - \\\\\\\\\\\\) chin-cord that had three-squared, four-stranded sliders. From now on, I'm going to be on the lookout for one of these early 'lefties'!

Thanks again!

Gene T

[Mike G.]

Gene & Rick,

Great thread. However (and I apologize up front) I am somewhat lost and confused. And it may be that I'm misunderstanding and looking at something entirely different from what is being discussed.

I've looked over a good many of the visor hats in my collection, from earliest to latest production and don't see anything that to my eye conclusively identifies chin cords as being of a certain era.

There are an almost equal number from early hats that have chin cords threads going from left to right as there are right to left. The same for the much later production hats chin cords.

I looked at what I think is being referred to as the slider, and again while there on some hats are differences, I also found upon examining a 1956 hat and a 1990 hat (extremes at both ends of the date spectrum) no definitive difference in thread count or squares between the two.

Perhaps I'm not even looking at the right stuff? If not, sorry.

Using a 1956 example and a 1990 example, here is what I'm seeing. Both have what appears to me to be a thread count of five (5).

Slider comparison, with the one at the top being of a 1956 hat cord and the one on the bottom a 1990 hat cord:

[Mike G.]

Even though the 56 is constructed of wire braid and the 90 of textile, I don't even see much difference in how the braids were constructed. The process appears virtually unchanged.

Again, 56 at left and 90 at right.

[Gene T]

I probably should have looked up and re-read that old "micrometer" thread before I posted my questions; I had forgotten how detailed it was! For one thing, Olivier had already posted an example of a 'lefty' cord with the earlier type sliders in that thread (post #7, though the picture link is now dead), which totally escaped my notice:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=128835


I remember being impressed by the physical analysis performed (it went further than I would have, and I am a detail geek!), but I also came away wondering when exactly did "early" end and "late" begin in terms of the transition between the two types of cords, if indeed there was such a transition.

I guess I was kind of hoping that someone would have discovered a definitive answer to this question in the 5+ years since that old thread was posted, but I reckon the reality may be that we would never know more than what Rick has enumerated above, and, to quote Stuart Smalley (D-MN), that's okay.


Gene T

[eastgermansks]

I have a hat dated 1978 that has the fat slider.