Help w/DDR AF Generals Hat Value

[Rev462]

Yes, Stasi-Max's prices on his fakes are quite ridiculous. Actually, I wouldn't trust anything he sells. I've heard some very unflattering things about him & it wouldn't surprise me to learn that his alleged "original" hats are also fakes.

To the best of my knowledge, repro hats are not being made from scratch. It would require reproduction material (or a good quantity of leftover, original material) and a source for the visors.

Original officer hats are still cheap & plentiful on the wholesale market, and going to your local fabric shop to get some wooly material for the cap band probably isn't a big challenge. The biggest challenge would be swapping the sweatbands and attaching the material over the cap band. But an experienced tailor or seamstress should be able to do it.

However, in this game anything is possible. If reproduction from scratch isn't being done now, it's probably just a matter of time before it starts.

And by the way, this reminds me of a concrete example where people have gone to great lengths to make repros. Those prototype Marshal shoulder board devices (the crossed batons and large stars) currently floating around are all repros. I bought some a while back and the quality is quite good. They're even plated in actual silver or gold.

[Grenztruppen]

DDR Hats

Rev, you have provided some interesting information concerning this. I would only suggest there might still be vast amounts of DDR high-rank officer visors in storage anywhere in the former East Germany. The only reason I suggest this is due to the probability that workers in hat factories made these hats all the way to the last days of the DDR. This is due to the nature of a Soviet-controlled economy. I do not read German, but I also wonder if the seller (Stasi-max) defines a "fake" in a different way than we would. Forgive me if I have missed something, but did he actually state that these hats were made from other visors? If so, for everyone's benefit, it would be great to see it being done. However, is it possible he has simply located General's visors without the insignia and these hats are being completed in the modern-day with the proper cap badges, cords and buttons? While I would not necessarilly define the hat as a "fake" but simply a parts made piece, I could see how the seller might define these hats as "fakes." It is similar to the 1990-91 made Soviet General's visors that have no date in them, but were made nevertheless. Are they fake? I would not necessarily define it that way. With that said, if hats are being altered to General officer examples, I would guess the mid to late 80's as a date to be careful of when looking at DDR Gererals visors. This is due to the fact that the older hats are too rare to be in circulation for this type of activity. Thank you again for the interesting discussion!

[Grenztruppen]

Rev, I neglected to mention in my last post that it would be interesting to see the inside of these hats that Stasi-max is selling. Since he does not post pictures of the inside of these hats, it would be interesting to see what type of sweatbands are being used. It would be nice to know that the original sweat bands have not been removed to make it easier to identify. Anyway, thank you again!

[Rev462]

It is possible that quantities of original hats are still being uncovered. Such things do happen from time to time, as when a stash of decaled helmets was found in old police station a few years ago.

Undoubtedly the DDR overproduced uniforms & headgear for the NVA, especially in the last couple years. And I think it's likely that the factories kept on producing after re-unification until they ran out of materials. This is known to have happened with daggers and Generals' insignia. I heard from a knowledgeable source that even the tailors who custom manufactured uniforms for the Generals kept on making them until they ran out of material. Probably a good many Generals' hats were also made immediately after unification with original materials.

This brings up a fascinating and murky discussion. How can you tell a hat or uniform made the day before unification from one made the day after? You can't. For all practical purposes, if an item can't be distinguished from an original, it IS original.

How much "original" content must an item have in order to be considerd original? For example, if you take an "original" visor hat shell and apply an "original" wreath & chincord, is the finished hat "original"? If you take an original, blank tunic and attach original collar tabs & shoulder boards, is it "original"? How about if you then apply an original "NVA Wachregiment" cuff title? Do you have an "original" NVA-Wachregiment tunic? (In the latter case I would say definitley NOT.)

Collectors have been wrestling with these questions probably since cave men started collecting bear claws. It is definitely an issue that contiunally haunts 3rd Reich collecting, and probably every other field of antiques.

Now in the case of Stasi-Max, I don't remember the exact wording, but his auction listing did state that the Generals' hats were made from converted officer hats. I would definitely consider these to be fakes.

A friend bought a hat from Lastfrontline and there was definitely something incorrect with the sweatband. A strange, uneven color as if had been poorly dyed. Given Lastfrontline's, ahem, "sterling" reputation, we suspect it came from Stasi-Max, or the same source who supplies him.

[Grenztruppen]

Interesting information concerning Lastfrontline...I have noticed a few hats listed by them that were West German and converted to look DDR.

[ehrentitle]

All of these companies were East German owned state enterprises, or VEBs. In some cases they kept on producing goods for at least a year or more after unification on 3 October 1990. That is until they were shut down or sold by the Treuhand agency (Treuhandanstalt) and privatized.