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**jkeegen** · 04-26-2010, 04:54 PM

Two more....

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**Ralph P** · 04-26-2010, 05:26 PM

Thanks for the thread...the other person you are thinking about is Dag who was a tank commander...I do feel Mike G will stop by...I don't remember why...

**Mike G.** · 04-27-2010, 08:42 AM

Yes,

Quite correct. The other NVA member you are thinking about is Dag, who was the T-72 Tanker.

I'm sure he will respond and share some very enlightening information regarding maintenance on armored vehicles.

**Mike G.** · 04-27-2010, 10:15 AM

F Co. 40th AR, Berlin Brigade

From the American perspective:

Tanks were a dirty job. They were fun, and I've never experienced greater comradery in any organization in which I've since worked.

Mostly, you spent time either in the motor-pool or in the field working on your tank. There was always something that needed attention, even when everything was okay. There was track tension that needed to be constantly watched to insure a track wasn't thrown. There were all kinds of components that constantly needed and required lubrication of various types. And during Tank Gunnery there was even more to do to keep maintenance up. And when it was finished - there was always the cleaning. Everything imaginable on a Tank had to be cleaned. The Track; the Tank and the weapons system. The engine constantly required maintenance also. There were fuel filters that had to be watched and meticulously maintained. There were air breathers that had to be maintained. And it goes on, and on and on.

Did I mention the great fun we had ...... ?

And in Berlin, we had the added responsibility of maintaining our Tanks in "Parade" condition. This made it all the more challenging. People in West Germany actually thought we had two Tanks - one for parades and one for tactical exercise. I wish it were so. It wasn't.

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**Mike G.** · 04-27-2010, 10:19 AM

F Co. 40th AR, Berlin Brigade

And when your Tank was properly maintained, where could you go with it in Berlin?

Anywhere you wanted ..... who was going to stop you?

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**AR-11** · 04-27-2010, 10:53 AM

I try to write down some memories:
Maintenanca was an immanent component of any training. It took place basically directly at the end of every trainiingtime and had to be taken up therefore always in the training timetable. Nothing was postponed to a later time (with a few, quite rare exceptions).
There was the daily technical maintenance (TTW), park days (mostly Saturday morning) and the " preparation of the new period of utilization" in October and in April (?) in each case 2 weeks.

To me the everlasting annoyance with the board documents remained the SFLs and leadership vehicles in recollection. Incredibly what a bollockingI got if sometimes a signature was absent or a few performed kilometers were not right precisely.
As an officer I often had a "stress" with bored and tired conscripts (and Unteroffizieren), who sleeped in or under their trucks, tanks etc instead to do their jobs, smoking guys at the park-area etc...

We had more "fight" against minor matters than with our technics...

AR-11, Dirk

**Dag** · 04-27-2010, 12:14 PM

OK, I will write up a few things about maintenance on tanks during my time.
One slight correction, though: I was a 72-Commander and in this position you had to have a driving license for the tank. Due to me commanding a tank in a training platoon, I could (and liked to) drive more often than the commanders of the battle-ready tanks which were tucked away nicely...

**Thälmannpionier** · 04-27-2010, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View Post

And when your Tank was properly maintained, where could you go with it in Berlin?

Anywhere you wanted ..... who was going to stop you?

cool Photo Mike

if Im not wrong, you are the one on the right..correct?

**Mike G.** · 04-27-2010, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Thälmannpionier View Post

cool Photo Mike

if Im not wrong, you are the one on the right..correct?

Correct.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Dag,

Looking very much forward to your comments.

We've chatted before and much to my surprise, and perhaps yours as well, it seemed there were a lot of things practiced and done in a very similar fashion between the NVA Armored Units and US Army Armored Units. Even though your combat doctrine was based upon Soviet Tactics, your actual work, maintenance and training as actually put into practice by the NVA, I learned was quite different from the typical Soviet drill. I am not familiar with the other NVA branches, but I can say for certain the Armored Units were extremely professional and experienced - far more so than their Soviet counterpart.

**AR-11** · 04-28-2010, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Dag View Post

OK, I will write up a few things about maintenance on tanks during my time.
One slight correction, though: I was a 72-Commander and in this position you had to have a driving license for the tank. Due to me commanding a tank in a training platoon, I could (and liked to) drive more often than the commanders of the battle-ready tanks which were tucked away nicely...

A tank driving license we arty officers with self propelled howitzers had too. But, as Dag wrote for his tank-units: we didn´t often found the time for driving it. But if we had: that was a lot of fun... Also driving the MT-LBu (our command-machines) was sooo cool... Their stiring-sticks where placed not at the left and right cabins wall, but between the drivers legs in the middle...

AR-11

**jkeegen** · 04-28-2010, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by AR-11 View Post

Also driving the MT-LBu (our command-machines) was sooo cool... Their stiring-sticks where placed not at the left and right cabins wall, but between the drivers legs in the middle...

I have images of the steering sticks inadvertently hitting "vital" components of the driver's physique

**AR-11** · 04-30-2010, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by jkeegen View Post

I have images of the steering sticks inadvertently hitting "vital" components of the driver's physique

I can imagine

- but I never saw such an accident... And I did not heard about one, at least in AR-11.

a cool thing with those MT-LBu was, the driver could stiring them with one hand! and that was really possible-I did it too. The stiring worked in such a way sensible and easy...

AR-11

**Dag** · 05-02-2010, 12:18 PM

Kontrolldurchsicht, aka KD (basic service and checks) to be carried out before/after use and during breaks during training, 15-20 minutes
Taegliche technische Wartung, aka TTW (daily technical maintenance) to be carried out at the end of each training day/night, about 2 hrs
Technische Wartung 1, aka TW 1 (technical maintenance no 1) after 1600-1800km, about 5 hrs
Technische Wartung 2, aka TW 2 (technical maintenance no 2) after 3300km-3500km, up to 18.5 hrs
Technische Ueberpruefung mit vorbeugender Instandsetzung (technical checks and tests and preventative repair), after 5 years (on battle-ready tanks), seven working days

In addition to the above listed maintenace levels there were some specific levels, for example before/after (submerged) river crossings, live firing exercises firing full calibre or sub-calibre (that is 23mm rounds instead of 125 mm).
I'd like to point out that the above figures are from a manual and indicate the maximum time allowed.
A 'special' was the Preparation for the summer/winter training period (every six months), 10 working days during which the whole regiment went into 'maintenance mode' and prepared all vehicles wheeled and tracked, for summer/winter use. I will cover this seperately.

Who did what?

Generally, the whole crew was involved at all levels of maintenance. However, tasks were split according to the main responsibilities of each crew-member. That means that, as an example, the driver was mainly responsible to look after the engine, tracks etc whereas the commander and gunner would look after guns, turret optics etc. Obviously, there were always task which required the whole crew, for example, lifting engine/powertrain decks, cleaning the gun, getting ammunition into and out of the tank. As a side issue, think about putting out guards when on exercise reduced the available hands. So, it was very important that the crew really worked as a team. The good thing was (and probably still is) that you can not hide and not do anything or significantly less then you should (contrary to certain 'teams' in civilian life).
Should a problem arise that could not be fixed by the crew specialist help from the repair-and maitenance group was available. This group had a truck fully equipped with special tools, spares and consumables. In addition to the help in the mechanical department there was help available for optics, guns and comms equipment.
The T-72 crew had a full set of tools and consumables available on the tank itself so they were very self-sufficient. All tasks of the first three maintenace levels could be carried out without any tool - chasing. This also includes spares like bulbs, washers, screws, seals and gaskets. A T-72 even carries spare engine oil. Should you ever wondering what is in the 'box' which sits on the exhaust, now you know - it's the spare oil tank.

Maintenance regime

On top of the maintenace levels I listed above there was, of course, much more to do for me as a commander of a training tank which was used by many crews throughout a week. Whilst we did not necessarily did a full TW 1 every Saturday we always had things to look after and check and repair. Depending on what it wsa used for in the previous week and, more importantly, who used it the tasks varied significantly. When it was used on the firing range, the coax MG did get a special look-over. The same applied to all things optical. Furthermore, we also lifted some of the cassettes of the auto-loader to look for spent cartridges (and live rounds). Simple things like this can jam the caroussel. Before anyone asks - belt and cartridge cases fell into a sack at the coax MG mounting. However, sometimes people forgot to put something underneath ist before they emptied it by opening the zip. And the easiest way to clean up would be to drop them all one level further - out of sight, out of mine - because it is not their tank. If the tank was used for tactical training or drivers training we had to spend a lot of our time getting bent things off and straightend with the hot hammer (acetylene torch), large hammer (5 kg or 10 kg) and the skills of the welder. Also everything related to the drivetrain would be looked at, like damage to road wheels, return rollers and also other parts of the power train (oil/water leaks). Special attention was always paid to batteries (a pain to get in and out) and the air system.
As all the above tasks were often applicable to all three tanks in the our platoon we shared the work accordingly.
Don't get me wrong, the TTW was carried out by the crews at whichever place the tank was and it would be handed back to the driver every time the crew finished with it. But as my crew was ultimately responsible for the tank to be ready at any time we did prefer to do it this way. It was also a great way to spend the Saturday morning and meant that we were rarely used for guard or other duties from Friday to Saturday. on the other hand, sometimes it was hard work due to serious problems and on occasions my crew and I (plus the guys from the repair company) spend Saturday and Sunday fixing the tank. And, at one weekend, we even had two fresh lieutenants who both were just brilliant.
Overall, the training tanks were not the best-looking tanks but certainly the best when it came to technical condition and the crews could get them pretty much going whatever the problem was.
Now, the crews on battle ready tanks had less to do on Saturdays. Because the tanks were allways ready to go (i.e. full of ammunition, rations personal kit etc) they would usually only check batteries, and any obvious leaks, be it water, oil or fuel. Engines were started on a regular basis but not much more.

Preparation for the summer/winter training period

As I mentioned before this lasted ten working days and was doen in the whole regiment. During the 10 days the tanks would be looked at very thoroughly with a visit from the various specialists. The specialists would do all checks on the optics, electronics, guns and comms equipment. The crews would do all the other things. I will explain on three examples how a day during this period went:

One day was used to check all the ammunition, clean and check the guns and the specialists came to check the optics. So, after arriving at the tank park teams would be set up for the day. The tanks would be driven out of the hangar, or not when there was good weather. Then the teams started to work to get the ammunition out. As this only applied to the battle-ready tanks, the seven crews usually formed two teams to shift about one tonne of ammunition on each tank. Ther ammunition was laid out and checked for any damage or deterioration. Also the ammo belts for Mg and AAMG were checked for any rust marks or other damage. Were necessary, ammunition was replaced. For us in the third platoon it was a little bit easier because we did not have to take the ammo out of and back into the tanks. All our ammunition was stored in the transport crates/containers and the ammunition boxes. So, we only had to open all the crates and lay out the ammunition. Overall, it was more weight to lift but on the other hand it was only stacking large boxes. The time was interrupted for breakfast. other work done on that day was cleaning MGs, main gun and especially the breech and breech block. I am not sure but I think we usually finished the day at lunchtime most of the days.
On another day the 'rolling parts' were being looked after. That means that all road wheels, sprockets and idlers were checked for damage, wear and tear and leaking oil or grease. Also, the condition of the tracks were checked and the tracks were cleaned. That required the tracks to be taken off. The opportunity begged so track-bashing was the order of the day. Again, as everyone who served himself knows it is imperative that no speck of sand can should be found in a track, especially when the tracks were painted black afterwards. Again, we in third platoon were exempt from the track-bashing part (well, some of us). However, our expertise came in at a later point in the day. Especially with young drivers (straight from training school) the risk was seen to great to get a tank damaged due to inexperience and the problem that people seem to forgte where left and right is, especially when under stress.
So, drivers and commanders of the third platoon were the ones who put the tracks back on. It was not quite as described in the manual and todays health-and safety executives would probably die of a heart-attack but on avaerage it took five minutes to have the track back on ready to drive the pin through.
Finally, I recall one day where the task was to paint the tanks due to a forthcoming inspection. This day, I seem to remember, was an 'extra' added to the 10 days. So, in the morning, some compressors were duly delivered, a 200 ltr drum of green paint turned up and a small-ish tin (probably 20 ltr) of black paint. And then we begun. Mix a good dollop of black with the green and do a test. Okay, to light-add more black. Okay, that's it. Now the tanks (only the battle ready ones) are sprayed with the colour the CO of the company deemed close to spec. When the run out, a new mix was prepared and adjusted to match the first batch. In the afternoon, stencils were brought so that the tactical numbers could be put on a again. One guy did the artistic painting framing the chassis number and a machined reference point on the tank with red paint. Others bullied the rubber on the road wheels(not painted(!) but black shoe polish). I know that this description is a pain for modellers but at least they now know that they have a certain amount of freedom when it comes to mixing the correct paint.
Fluids were changed on another day. For example, on one day all radiators were drained and refilled (either with water or with a water/antifreeze mix for temperatures down to -35C, I think). Also, all filters were taken out and cleaned (oil, fuel, air) and oils were changed if required.

By the way, the pictures posted in this thread most likely show the preparation for the summer/winter period.

I hope that the above gives a little insight into the maintenance regime. Should any more detail be required or question arise from the above, let me know.

**Collectinsteve** · 05-02-2010, 01:31 PM

And when people ask how it is possible that BMPs, T-34s, and even T-72s sell for less than a fancy BMW... I think of discussions like this

In order to properly own and maintain a tracked vehicle you must be prepared for a lot of very tough maintenance. If you want to own and maintain a heavy armored vehicle, like a T-72, then you need a very large, fully equipped shop with crane. Otherwise you might as well take the money spent on the tank and flush it down the toilet

Speaking as someone who has owned several tracked vehicles and is in the process of rebuilding tracks for a logging vehicle, I am familiar with both the fun and the pain of tracked vehicles. They definitely are a LOT of fun to drive!

Steve

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