Question about postwar items.

[SteelhelmJim]

I have a bread bag and butter dish that are supposed to be postwar. The bag has the divider and the dish turns several times to open and close.
The problem is, I can't find any photos of either West german or East German troops using either item. (I have seen photos of West german troops using wartime produced gas masks and canisters).
So what is the whole story concerning these bakelite butter dishes, and very nicely made bread bags? Who made them, why the changes (divider and number of screw turns), who used them, and for how long.
My instincts tell me that somebody thought a divider would be more practical for the bread bag, and having more turns required to open the butter dish would prevent it from coming open accidentally. But who decide these things, and for which army?
By the way, to confuse the issue even more, I've heard reports that there have been ground dug butter dishes, from the Eastern Front, that take more turns to open than the commonly excepted ones that take a quarter to half turn to open.
So, whats going on here? What are the facts? Does anyone know for sure?

[Gordon Craig]

SteelhelmJim,

I don't know of anyone on either the East or West Geman forums who has counted how many turns it takes to open a fat container. That many post war ones look virtually identical to war time ones is all I have heard people talk about. There are many BRD organizations that used bread bags in diferent colours and designs so I can not comment on any specific bread bags in your collection without pictures, markings etc. Even then, field gear is not a specialty of mine.

Regards,

Gordon

[SteelhelmJim]

On one of the other forums, I forget which one, the number of turns was discussed at length, and the consensus was that it takes a quarter to half turn to open a wartime butter dish, vs a postwar one.
The bread bag I already posted to a site in the past and it was determined that the divider made it postwar. The bag was virtually identical to wartime bags in every way. Someone commented that it was very early postwar. But no one seems to have any detailed info on the postwar production of these very well made items, that are virtually identical to WW2 ones.
Thanks for your response.

[Ian Richardson]

I know for a fact that the DDR/East germany produced Bread Bags of the same pattern as the Wehrmacht from post war right up until about 1963/64. They were used for a while post war in thier version of the old Wehrmacht field equipment set-up, and later with Volkspolezei and other police forces, however as the years went by they became phased out in favor of a new backpack ('sturmgepack').

I myself own a 1962-dated E.German breadbag which posses the divider you speak of. The only difference I see other than the divider from WW2 pattern, is the material, which is a light grey/blue-gray as opposed to the tan/brown colour of WW2 pattern. If you posted pictures I could tell you deffinitively what era yours is.

However,it is possible it was a wartime production bag that was later retro-fitted with the divider in postwar West OR East, as essentially both armies utilized the Wehrmacht equipment rig for at least 10 years after the war. So, it really comes down to the material used, and dating inside it. Hope that helps.

-Ian

[SteelhelmJim]

Mine is tan/brown, made of heavy duty canvas material, and the markings are on the inside of the flap but too faint to read. Also linen thread is used to secure the leather tabs, straps, and flat-grey colored metal buttons.

[Ian Richardson]

Well based upon your description, I'd say it was most likely NOT DDR manufactured, and if anything, its probably a very late war production bag used by the Bundswehr (west german military) as part of its own equipment rig (also similar if not identical to WW2 german equip rig) up to as late as mid 50's.
Stocks of these and many other items used by the wehrmacht were used up until sufficient resources were procured to adopt and design new equipment, and this meant using former 'nazi' equipment. The DDR for example used wartime model Kar98k's in its combat groups of the working class and reserve units until the late 50's. THis just goes to show that itmes were used when and where they were needed. Not much help, but theres a little history for ya. Unfortunately I know nothing of butter dishes

-Ian

[SteelhelmJim]

Thanks for the info. I keep trying to put my finger on exactly when and where these well-made, almost Identical to TR, bread bags were produced. And who used them.
Little by little I think I'm putting the pieces together.

[Kozlov]

Germans like camping, bread bags were produced (both sides of the anti-fascist protection barrier) for civillians to go camping with.

No markings, probably civvie.