DDR tunic with medals on ebay...comments please

[Mike G.]

Good job folks

[SirHarry1]

Uniforms from this ebay seller

Gents, may I add something to this discussion.
A few years ago I sold all my East German Generals uniforms to Paul and he paid me good money without a problem.
Later on I decided that it would be nice to have a few uniforms back in my collection and I worked out a deal with him. Out of the 8 uniforms he sent me, only 3 were genuine - the other five were fakes, converted officers uniforms from Grenztruppen, Air Force and Volksmarine. He took them back, but it cost me a little fortune in postage and I was very dissapointed. Most of all by his statement that he has not enough knowledge to recognise the fakes. He spent about 12000 bucks just to buy my stuff, no clue how much he bought from others - and spends all the money without a bit of knowledge??
I dont say that all the uniforms he offers are fakes, but unfortunately a lot of them are.
That is my personal experience.
Harry

[Mike G.]

Harry,

Your experience is pretty much the same as the rest of us that have been at this a while.

Initially, very early on, there were no problems with LFL. And, initially, he only dealt in uniforms - nothing else.

But as the years went, it became hit and miss with him. Just as often as something was good, there also was something that was bad that had to be returned.

Then, more recently, things seem to have taken a turn for the worse, particularly with General Officer grade stuff.

Most of us have at this juncture opted out, and just avoid the Chap altogether.
Nothing ventured, nothing lost.

Your comment about his too oft used alibi "Not enough knowledge to recognize the fakes" is profound. LFL has been at this business a very, very long time. And he has the added benefit of having this stuff pass through his grubby little paws - meaning he has actually had the opportunity to give it the "Smell" test. Yet, when he is caught red handed passing off something that is fake, that is exactly the course he takes ..... he doesn't have the knowledge to know the difference. Perhaps as a Dealer of NVA military memorabilia, who does not per his own admission possess the knowledge to be in that type of business, Ebay should reconsider permitting him access to sell his wares.

Any way, it is through forums such as this, and open dialogue through which members can exchange information, that we can guard ourselves against possible deception that otherwise would blacken the eye of our collecting interests.

Thanks,

[Gordon Craig]

Harry,

Thanks for adding your story to our knowledge of Paul and how he works. I avoided the costs of returning a uniform when Paul refused to send me additional pictures. His response was that if I didn't like the uniform I could always return it so there was no reason to send me additonal pictures. I wouldn't deal with him after that.


Regards,

Gordon

[Rev462]

Sir Harry,

Thanks for sharing your expierence with Paul. My experience is pretty much the same as Mike's. I started dealing with Paul several years ago, before he started selling on Ebay. I must admit, I got some smashing pieces from him. But as time went on, more & more questionable material started creeping into his offerings and in the last 2 or 3 years he really seems to have gone off the deep end. It's to the point now where I won't buy anything he has, even if I think it's original. He'll only use the proceeds to get more fakes.

Paul is not stupid. I find it hard to believe he would spend tens of thousands of dollars on items that he was clueless about. He may not be as knowledgeable as someone like David H, but he's definitely not clueless.

He knows when his stuff is bad. Recall those dark collar Grenztruppen general parade tunics had had listed a few months ago. He started those off at $1800 I believe (which would itself be a bargain price for an original piece). Last I saw, the price had dropped to $299 or something like that. Now, if YOU had an original piece like that, would you cut your price by over 80%? I know I wouldn't. Maybe 10 or 15% to make a quick sale, but certainly not 80%.

I don't know if Paul bought out a big collection and got screwed, or if he actively seeks out sources of fake material. Some of his latest visor hats look an awful lot the fakes being sold be Stasi-Max, so I tend to think it's the latter. Or maybe a combination of both. Either way, the result is the same - fakes flooding the market & people getting screwed out of their hard-earned money.

[torstenbel]

sounds very much like lastfrontline is one to be avoided as a seller ...

PS: Mike/Ralph, would it not be a good idea to have a thread with trusted sellers and sellers to be avoided on this subforum? I know that lists like that may be fraud with danger, but only sellers that clearly and repeatedly offer fakes should be branded as bad, etc... there do appear to be a good few out there who could immediately be put into that category .... aren't there?

[Mike G.]

Torsten,

It would on first glance, appear to be a good idea. But past experience and history has shown doing such a thing opens the door for all sorts of issues and problems.

Firstly, posts by individuals, and even threads initiated by individuals about a specific article of memorabilia in question are quite appropriate for all the obvious reasons. And a discussion therein on the seller or "Dealer" offering the article being discussed also is appropriate and okay.

But having a specific thread that is specifically dedicated to "Fraudsters" opens up all sorts of problems, some of them with financial implications.

Even if the seller is someone that clearly falls into that category; were they to be identified as such on a thread that is devoted to just that, and that alone, they would have cause and recourse to come back on the poster and on the forum administrator and owner, unless such was already a documented and proven fact. Not one of us on this forum is qualified to testify in a court of law that an article of DDR memorabilia is "Fake", no matter how much we know it is. Out membership does not have the background nor the training in that area. Ralph has published a book and also continues to work in the field about which his DDR interest is devoted. He is the only member I can think of that might fit into this category.

We must also remember none of us are experts, and to my knowledge, we don't have access to a documented and verified expert to back up allegations - and that is what they are until proven - allegations.

There are members out there that despite what we individually might think about a particular seller; have in their mind or dealings with the seller, only good experiences, and they will undoubtedly respond in kind to the thread, backing up and supporting the seller. This will lead to arguments.

Some of the "Sellers" are careful to protect themselves. LFL for example, in his early years sold some remarkably good hard to find high quality DDR memorabilia - all of it real. While that is no longer the case, he protects himself in two ways - he claims not to be knowledgeable about what he sells, and he will always permit the buyer to return the item bought if not satisfied.

There also are members or viewers who have been "Burned" really bad by the sellers and "Dealers" on something they purchased, and are otherwise in denial because they do not wish to admit this occurred, and they too will support the seller or "Dealer" on such a thread.

Also, there are people associated to such sellers and "Dealers" thru personal friendship, who will post favorable comments on such a thread in support of the offending seller and "Dealer", and negative comments pursuant the people attempting to "Out" the seller or "Dealer" as a fraudster.

Such a thread will become very heated and political in a very short time. How do I know this?
It was tried on the former Gunboards DDR Forum, with disastrous results.

I think people on this forum will have to be content with the fact if they are inclined to purchase DDR military memorabilia and are also a member of this forum, it is their responsibility to view and follow the forum, and to perhaps make personal notes of material, examples, subject matter and "Dealers" discussed here on the forum for future reference. Just as it is their responsibility to build up a knowledge base pursuant to their individual collecting interests; it is their responsibility to build up a knowledge base pursuant fraudulent replicated articles of DDR memorabilia and also the fraudulent dealers out their selling this stuff.

I think the WAF DDR sub-forum does a remarkably good job of this and it only requires initiative to surf the DDR sub-forum to find most any topic of interest that is discussed to include those "Dealers" currently of questionable reputation.

[torstenbel]

Hi Mike,

you're right of course ... how about just a list of good and trusted sellers then ... with the option to strike them off the list if they have been shown to do bad things? There cannot be any legal issues with an appraoch like that ... or so I would think someone should keep something like a running total summary of these good and trusted sellers that always gets brought up to the top of the thread whenever there is a change or an addition to the list. I could not run such a list or thread myself as I am a seller and would be accused of being bias with regard to who is on the list and he is not.

Luckily, I believe that there are many more good sellers out there, then there are outright bad and fraud ones ... Cheers, Torsten.

[Mike G.]

Torsten,

That would be acceptable.
I think somewhere on the WAF DDR Sub-forum a thread like this already exists.
I'll have to do some searching and see. The problem is, it will not get very many posts and will quickly fall to the very end where it will be all but forgotten.
We just about have our limit for "Pinned" threads, and we would have to drop one to add this as a "Pinned" thread.

Something to think about for sure.

And of course, you and Nico would be right at the top on it.

I guess the only thing that could go wrong would be the "Bad" sellers have their friends keep posting them on it, forcing Ralph and me to keep removing them. But that is easily resolved.