My 1965 DDR Border Guard General visor hat

[redjames2004]

Hello, I decided to post my pictures of my 1965 DDR Grenztruppen(Border Guard) General visor hat on this DDR subforum. The guy's name was W. Engelhardt but I was not able to find this guy's name in DDR Generals and Admirals book which was entirely in German. This particular hat was in excellent shape even with its saddle-style crown. This metal DDR General emblem had two screwed pins inside its hood and have early brown leather sweatband. His name tag was inside the brittle clear sweat shield. Also the DDR staatwappen emblem was two-piece and enameled and was held by two screw pins. I got this hat from Albert Arguelles vis his eBay auction 7 years ago. I still owns this visor hat. Pictures to follow. Thanks,James

[redjames2004]

2- DDR Grenz General visor hat

DDR General emblem close up

[redjames2004]

3- DDR General visor hat

Close up picture of two-piece enameled DDR General emblem

[redjames2004]

4-Grenz General hat

Picture of DDR Grenz General visor hat's saddle-style crown

[redjames2004]

5- Inside the visor hat

Inside the hat picture

[redjames2004]

6- Name tag

The name tag close up picture

[redjames2004]

7- General emblem screw pin close up

Close up picture of two screw pins that held the metal DDR Grenz General emblem

[redjames2004]

8- Much better picture of screw pins

Final picture that was much better than my previous photo. Thanks for viewing my DDR Grenz General visor hat! James

[ehrentitle]

James - I have a similar GT General's hat from the early 1970s. I purchased it from another well known E-bay dealer some years ago. It has the brown leather sweat band like yours. I have other 70s & 80s dated General hats that all have grey sweat bands. I've had my doubts about it being an original General's hat as GT is one of the easiest hats to counterfeit by converting an officers hat by adding the general's insignia. Would anyone here know if brown leather sweat bands were used on the 60s and 70s GT officers hats as well?

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

Buying an authentic Border Generals cap is nearly impossible. My research indicates that there were only 27 men who held a General Officers rank in the DDR Border Guard during their entire existance. We need someone who has purchased a cap either from a retired Border Guard General or a close relative after his deathto authenticate a cap during a particular time period. As Kevin says, they have been heavily faked since they are easily done. Perhaps David can help here?

Regards,

Gordon

[Mike G.]

With respect to Grenztruppen General Officer Visor hats being easy to fake. That is absolutely true. All that had to be done was to trade out the officer chin cord and silver metal fasteners for a gold braided chin cord and gold metal fasteners and attach the correct appropriate General Officer cockade insignia by production year.

I know the safest and surest way to insure one is getting a real Grenz General Officer Visor Hat is to insure the inside sweat-band is gray in color.

I have one dated 1976 (R) and I have absolutely no doubt that it is the real deal. I am certain even without having taken it from the hand of the original owner. It may in fact have never had an original owner. None-the-less, it is definitely real.

_ _ _ _ _ _

To be open, honest and objective;
I have the following three concerns about the visor hat in question. As already noted, it has a brown sweat-band. For me that is troublesome.
But also troublesome is that the hat is dated 1965 but has a 1978 to 1990 General's cockade insignia on it.
The third nail in the coffin the owner already provided himself. The hat is named, and the name is not a known general officer that served in the Grenztruppen.

These are my observations.

[redjames2004]

Hello Gents, I admit that I made a mistake by buying this put-together DDR Grenz General off eBay from Albert Arguelles 7 years ago. This happened before I gained some valuable information regarding the DDR General visor hats. The mentioned name doesnt exist in DDR Grenztruppen service. Only 27 such generals served in Grenztruppen according to Gordon's research and my own research. The brown leather sweatbands are ususally found in officer visor hats. Most General visor hats do have gray leather sweatbands. Micheal Gallagher was correct about the later issue metal DDR General emblem that dont belong to this hat. Thanks gents for your help! James

[Knuckles930]

Would the old holes from the prongs of the officers
insignia also not stand out besides the
attachments of the Generals insignia?

[Mike G.]

You wouldn't know this if ordering it off the internet from someone or some firm. You would have to have access to it and even then you would have to either open up the brim from the inside or remove the general officer cockade insignia to see/observe this.

I want to add one thing, so members are not misled. The sweat-band can be brown on some examples. I only mentioned gray because of how easy it is to fake a Grenz General's visor cap. Insuring the example you are looking into acquiring has a gray sweat-band, is one way to increase the chances of it being genuine.

But there are examples of NVA land forces General's Visor Hats that have brown leather sweat-bands.

Just didn't want to mislead or confuse anyone.

[Kartofelpreußer]

Gents,

Buying an authentic Border Generals cap is nearly impossible. My research indicates that there were only 27 men who held a General Officers rank in the DDR Border Guard during their entire existance. We need someone who has purchased a cap either from a retired Border Guard General or a close relative after his deathto authenticate a cap during a particular time period. As Kevin says, they have been heavily faked since they are easily done. Perhaps David can help here?

Regards,

Gordon

I think one thing that has to be clarified, is that it is nearly impossible to buy an authentic ISSUED Border Guard General's cap, for the reasons stated, but the possibility of buying an authentic, but unissued cap is much more of a gray area. As we all know, the DDR made all manner of things in vast excess of what might actually ever get used, and presumably GT Generals' hats were no exception. Just how many too many were made would be entirely a matter of conjecture (unless someone knows something?), but there are no doubt SIGNIFICANTLY more than 27 "genuine" GT General hats floating around.

That said, they are indeed easy to fake, and at the very least a significant segment, and probably the vast majority, of those on the market today are counterfeit.

I'm sure there are genuine ones to be had-- probably both with brown and gray sweatbands-- but this is an area where caveat emptor would be the rule of the day.