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**Don D.** · 06-04-2009, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by DaveM View Post

From all the pics...
in specifically made GDR/Soviet coffee table books...
it was a big love-fest.....

But scratch the surface a bit in other books like Cardboard Castle... and you'll see international inter-allied rivalry that sometimes had an ugly side.

There was a german famer with wheat fields outside of the Doberitz Kaserne who would pay the wives of Russian officers to come glean the fields during harvest time. He would stand next to us and point out the wives of Majors and Colonels, laughing the whole time and making remarks like "Who's the real masters here..." etc...

**Don D.** · 06-04-2009, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by PD Sergeant View Post

Interesting photograph. What the heck is that on their chest? Is it something similar to our U.S. Army MILES gear?

Reflects. These are traffic regulators mapping out a unit move. They would spit them out along the route at turns and they would ensure vehilces made it to thier destination. Made it easy to set up and collect on them.

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**TJ Suter** · 06-04-2009, 08:18 PM

Thanks Don. That makes perfect sense. Kind of reminds me of playing "road guard" in the Army.

**Dag** · 06-05-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by DaveM View Post

From all the pics...
in specifically made GDR/Soviet coffee table books...
it was a big love-fest.....

But scratch the surface a bit in other books like Cardboard Castle... and you'll see international inter-allied rivalry that sometimes had an ugly side.

Unfortunately, it was not that simple.
Initially, it was a good idea, as with allied forces, to forge close relationships. However, after a while it did not work as good as initially thought. One aspect was that the Soviet Army realised that the NVA became better and better, so that at the lower level (regiments and below) the NVA were usually always winning competitions.
The fact that a posting to East Germany was a posting to the front line, as far as the Soviet Army was concerned made the life of soviet conscripts/short term NCOs even worse. At least, they got some money. However, for them, it must have been hard when they compared their army life with that of NVA soldiers.
To make it worse, if they were allowed to leave the barracks (only in groups) they were confronted with a country which had a much higher standard of living - and that in a (part) of the country, that lost WW2.

As Torsten wrote, I too had some very good meetings with Soviet army soldiers and I will always remember some of the highlights.
On the other hand, I do not condemn outright any Soviet army soldier who "lost" it whilst based in the GDR.

There were a lot of other things ongoing at the higher political and economical level - but that is another story.

Dag

**Dag** · 06-05-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Don Doering View Post

There was a german famer with wheat fields outside of the Doberitz Kaserne who would pay the wives of Russian officers to come glean the fields during harvest time. He would stand next to us and point out the wives of Majors and Colonels, laughing the whole time and making remarks like "Who's the real masters here..." etc...

Hi Don,

Can you tell me when that was (year)?

Thanks.

**Don D.** · 06-05-2009, 10:22 AM

1989-90.

**Ian Richardson** · 06-05-2009, 12:41 PM

So, sounds like there really weren't that many 'friendships' amongst soviet and NVA soldiers? I see what Iannima meant by 'posed' or'faked' friendliness amongst the soldiers in pictures. That one photo of the men smiling looks very fake.

**Ian Richardson** · 06-05-2009, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by PD Sergeant View Post

Interesting photograph. What the heck is that on their chest? Is it something similar to our U.S. Army MILES gear?

In that same picture, I'm not sure but is it someones birthday or 'victory over the capitalist pig'-day

or something, cuz that appears to be a cake with a big star on it...

I wouldn't mind a communist-themed bday cake myself though

-Ian

**AR-11** · 06-05-2009, 01:15 PM

[quote=torstenbel;3299284 I personally had a couple of great drinking sessions with Soviet Army officers ...

Cheers, Torsten.[/quote]

Gents,
I remember a few meetings with our soviet arty -" tovaryshtshs" in their garrisaon in Dessau-Kochstedt . And, yes, after all the culture-programms with singing, dancing e.t.c. we had the chance to meet us in person. And these were quite relaxed. And if russians are relaxed they have vodka and you are always invited...
OMG - Believe me, we had no chances to win in drinking

I had a personally friend there in the garrison during that times. He was an SFL-officer like me. We also were in private contact. So my battery and his one we made some things together beyond all the officially ordered gatherings. We organised a small sports tournament, or a "subbotnik" in Wolfen... That guys always loved to come to us, because they got good and enough the eat. And they was good in hard sports and hard work!
I also visited the soviet garrison in case of duty a few times, because we needed help in using and tactics with our 2S3M (they was quite new in the 11th MSD at this time. And we "fresh" officers did just not know everything about them too.) So we saw what is was happened in this garrison beyond the "official" line... Believe me, I can´t believe what I saw: officers with rods in their hands-and I did nort know why... Till I saw why: one officer (or Sergeant, I ´m not sure nomore) beats a private! As he saw us, he stopped directly! But I saw it!! I told it to my friend there-he shrugged his shoulders.. I saw, it was normal for him...

I beg you pardons, if my memories are too boring for you... But I want to point out, that there was more than always these "officially ordered contacts".

AR-11

**Dag** · 06-05-2009, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by STEBALIN View Post

The first picture looks like captured Wehrmacht officers ready to be deported.

Hi Stebalin,
How do you come to that conclusion? Because of the bunch of flowers?
This picture must have been taken between 1959 and 1969. This is because the tank on the picture is a T-34/85m which was in general use from 1958 and was not in any active NVA-unit by the end of 1969.

**STEBALIN** · 06-05-2009, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Dag View Post

Hi Stebalin,
How do you come to that conclusion? Because of the bunch of flowers?
This picture must have between 1959 and 1969. This is because the tank on the picture is a T-34/85m which was in general use from 1958 and was not in any active NVA-unit by the end of 1969.

Oh no no, it was not a serious comment. It´s just that the picture looks so WWII-like, with the closed collar tunics, the M43 soviet kitel, the tank and the typical B&W pictures´ blur. When I saw it I remembered the WWII photo collection I used to have before.

**Dag** · 06-06-2009, 02:12 AM

ah, ok. Misunderstanding, obviously

**Kozlov** · 06-06-2009, 06:21 AM

A book I have here called "The Warsaw Pact: Problems of command and control" talks a lot about the relationship between the various States of the Warsaw Treaty.

It was recognised after several of the large scale joint exercises that national rivalries and language barriers greatly disrupted their attempts to field a cohesive force.

A serious attempt was made to try and resolve this apparently, creating "buddy units" to work and train together and the book even goes on to suggest they were trying to mix nationalities at the very lowest unit level, forming mixed squads!! (I've asked Torsten about this before actually)

The Soviet/Russian approach to everything has always been (and remains) one of "cultural imperialism", so any attempt will probably have been more about "russsianisation" than anything else though.

Its an interesting book btw, if you get a chance to find a copy, its worth the money.

**Viktor** · 06-06-2009, 07:02 AM

Genossen,
A Soviet Officer did tended to get the NCO's to "train" any Soldiers that didn't Conform to Laid down Norms.

The current Russian Army likely still uses this "Soldier Culture".

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