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    #1

    Some questions for Genosse Dag (Or others of course!)

    I have several questions pertaining to tank crews, and I mainly direct these to Genosse Dag because he was of course a tank crewman (commander, am i right?)

    I remember reaidng on this froum somewhere, but cannot find the post, something about certain rank requirements for crewmembers. Was there a minimum rank one had to be before being able to perform that duty (driver, commander, gunner)?

    I'm also curious as to what you had to do for the tank qualification badge.

    Also, did you wear a single chevron on your sleve or no chevron?

    As I understand it, a single chevron was for a UaZ pledging three years of service. However, why are single chevrons present of some wool NCO tunics yet not on others, and someitmes even seen on enlisted wool tunics?
    The only other option for an NCO would have been a Berufsunteroffizier, correct? Or were there other NCO options?

    Vielen Dank!
    Tags: None
    #2
    just to let you know that I am preparing the answer.....
    Last edited by Dag; 03-08-2009, 12:56 PM.

    Comment

      #3
      Genossen, We are likely to see a Decisive Posting on the matter..... .

      Comment

        #4
        I eagerly await it

        Comment

          #5
          Yes DAG I eagarlly await to. I was a tanker (driver) for the US Army in the 1980s on a M60 as well as a Commander for the T-55 we had for war gaming.
          I'm putting together a DDR Tankers uniform so I may need some help in the future.

          Joe

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by RedBaran11 View Post
            I have several questions pertaining to tank crews, and I mainly direct these to Genosse Dag because he was of course a tank crewman (commander, am i right?)

            I remember reaidng on this froum somewhere, but cannot find the post, something about certain rank requirements for crewmembers. Was there a minimum rank one had to be before being able to perform that duty (driver, commander, gunner)?

            I'm also curious as to what you had to do for the tank qualification badge.

            Also, did you wear a single chevron on your sleve or no chevron?

            As I understand it, a single chevron was for a UaZ pledging three years of service. However, why are single chevrons present of some wool NCO tunics yet not on others, and someitmes even seen on enlisted wool tunics?
            The only other option for an NCO would have been a Berufsunteroffizier, correct? Or were there other NCO options?

            Vielen Dank!

            To make it easier, I numbered my answers. Those who already know things can skip through to things they don't know or they wish to comment on.

            1) Ranks of crew members:

            To simplify the explanation I will only refer to a T-72-crew primarily. Also, I will refer to my tank which I will use as example. This is to avoid confusion relating to officers training. Tanks were also commanded by long-term NCOs but usually, there was no difference in the training and the first three years of service in the units. After the fourth year of service, long-term NCOs would attend further trainig and courses which lead them to a qualification equivalent to the civilian "Master Craftsman" (Meister), which allowed smooth transition into a civilian job.

            Gunner: Gunners were conscripts serving 18 months. After they were called up, they went throgh basic training after which they pledged the oath. From that point onwards they were fully fledged soldiers,
            could do guard duties etc. It was also the point when the proper training as a tank gunner began. This training was carried out within the company and usually lead by a juniour rank officer, supported by
            tank commanders. Depending on the subject, sessions were also lead by professional NCOs/senior short term NCOs. This training would also include tactical exercises (day/night) to get the crews teaming up.
            At this point the gunners had the rank of Soldat. At the end of the first six months of his time in the army a life firing exercise took place (full calibre).
            The following 6 months would be a repeat of the first 6 months but now at a higher level - platoon tactics etc and more detailed training in fields related to tank gunnery.
            At the end of this period (12 months after being called up)the gunner could (and usually was) promoted to Gefreiter. he would keep this rank for the remaining six months.
            He could not get another promotion but could become a soldier again.

            For a relatively short period, when the T-72 was introduced into the tank regiments of 9th tank division, the gunners were trained at the same school the commanders and drivers attended. As far as I know, the training lasted 3 months before
            they were posted to the units.

            SPECIFIC to T-55 crews: The loader was also a conscript. On a T-55 you would start as a loader and usually (to my knowledge) became a gunner after 6 months.




            Driver: The driver was a short term NCO and started training at a sergeant training school (Unteroffiziersschule). The rank was 'Unteroffiziersschueler' The first six weeks were the same as for conscripts.
            After that period the specific training started. Drivers were trained on T-72 and T-55, which included not just the driving but also a thorough theoretical technical training , specific to the two tanks.
            At the end of the six months training they had to pass exams and were promoted to Unteroffizier. They were then posted to the regiments and there the training within the units would be continued
            and they would now be responsibility for 'their' tank. Technical training continued along with tactical training etc.
            Because drivers were classed as specialists and did not have to lead/command, they could not progress any further.

            Only in 1989 was a change introduced which made it possible for specialist short term NCOs to be promoted to Unterfeldwebel after two years of service. However,
            I have no further details on this because it was introduced after I left.

            In the late 80ies (87/88) conscripts were called up and trained as drivers. This was a reaction to balance shortages on short term NCOs. They did the same training as the NCOs and were posted to the units as Gefreiter 9after 6 months training. I think they could be promoted to Stabsgefreiter.

            Commander:

            The commander was a short term NCO and started training at a sergeant training school (Unteroffiziersschule). The rank was 'Unteroffiziersschueler'. The first six weeks were the same as for conscripts.
            After that period the specific training started. The school I trained at, Commanders were trained on T-72s only because the majority would stay within the division and the few to be posted to the south of the GDR were posted to units which were getting T-72s.

            The training included the following subjects:

            Political education, tactics, gunnery, physical training, NBC training, technical training, driver training, engineer (sapper) training and some more (regulation, marching, preparing lessons).

            At the end of the six months training they had to pass exams and were promoted to Unteroffizier. They were then posted to the regiments and there the training within the units would continue and they would now be responsibility for 'their' tank and it's entire crew. They would have to train the gunners, continue to educate themselves, and do other duties which were 'reserved' for short term NCOs in a commanding position, like being duty sergeants (UvD) or in charge of the soldiers doing guard duties.


            ================================================== ======

            2) Klassifizierungsabzeichen (Qualification badge) tanks
            Unfortunately, I do not have a detailed listing of the requirements for the various levels of tank qualification badges. First of all, there were two different sets: one for drivers and one for commanders/gunners.

            All this is from memory at the moment:
            Commanders/gunners had to fullfill all live firing exercises within the six-month training period with good and very good. The full calibre firing had to be passed with very good.

            Depending of the badge you were trying to get commanders had to prepare a training session for a specific gunnery-related topic. Of course, complexity/difficulty increased from level 3 to Level 1.
            Gunners had to do a presentation on a technical topic.
            The next topic was a test on gunnery theory, which was the same for commanders and gunners. During this part you had to prove that you new how to correct aiming when facing side winds, moving targets etc.
            At the end was a test of practical knowledge. This, again, was based on the level you wanted to achieve. Tests were, for example, the disassembly/timed assembly of the
            coaxial MG, including a functional description of specific part(s). It could also be the demonstration of routines for a gunner after getting the order to engaged a target.
            For my second level I had to explain and demonstrate how to adjust the coax machine gun and main gun with the gunners sight.
            For my level one I had to do a presentation on ballistics, firing rules/rules of engagement when acting as a platoon commander with supporting infantry and the hands on part
            comprised of the demonstration of semi-automatic and manual loading of the gun and the removal/disassembling/assembling and fitting of the main gun breech block.

            In general, the exams for the drivers followed the same principles but focussed on engine, transmission etc. Practical exams included fault-finding, swapping parts, repair tasks etc.




            ================================================== ========


            3) The Chevron

            When I started at sergeant training school we had to sew the chevrons onto jackets and great coat. However, after being posted to my regiment I removed them within weeks.
            So, for ca 7 months they were on my uniform, for the remaining 27 they were not.
            This was not covered by any regulations but at least in our regiment nobody forced us to sew them on again. I know that this was different in other units.
            You wrote that you see enlisted man wool tunics with chevrons. They could be those of the rather rare SaZ (Soldaten auf Zeit). These were soldiers who signed up for three years and could reach the rank of Stabsgefreiter.
            I don't know at which point this possibilty was removed, I have never seen one in the late 80ies. They were certainly in the paratroopers and maybe some other very specialised branches.
            However, I would say the wool jackets belonged to Unteroffiziersschueler. During the training (see above) we wore normal enlisted man jackets with the chevron on and the shoulderboards for Unerroffiziersschueler.

            Why there are NCO wool jackets without chevrons I explained above.


            I hope that this answers your questions. If not, keep asking......
            Last edited by Dag; 03-19-2009, 03:16 PM. Reason: corrected bad grammar and spelling

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by MaxxBrunn1938 View Post
              Yes DAG I eagarlly await to. I was a tanker (driver) for the US Army in the 1980s on a M60 as well as a Commander for the T-55 we had for war gaming.
              I'm putting together a DDR Tankers uniform so I may need some help in the future.

              Joe
              Hi 'fake' T-55 commander,

              feel free to ask whatever you want to know.

              Dag

              Comment

                #8
                Excellent! Thanks for your time in answering the questions. I know I speak for all of us when I say that any primary source information is very valuable.

                It would be fantastic if there were any memoirs of NVA soldier's.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dag View Post
                  Hi 'fake' T-55 commander,

                  feel free to ask whatever you want to know.

                  Dag
                  Just for chuckles DAG here are a few photos from My tank, also it was a T-54 since it had the coaxail in the drivers compartment as the T-55 didn't. Myself and 5 other guys go her running with the help of a few friends I knew in Aberdeen.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    photo 2 this was back in 1984
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Notice how lower she is compared to the M60 in the background
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Ok, Max, I've got to ask: Can you give us your personal comparision of the T54 to the M-60?

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hi Dag,
                          Thank you VERY much for your answers! Definently adds a lot of insight and its interesting to see how one progressed through training and ranks as a tanker.

                          One more quick one though- After you were promoted to Unteroffizier as a commander, when were you then promoted to Unterfeldwebel?

                          Thank you!

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Dag, thanks for the good info.

                            Maxx - Awesome experience you have there! Must have been a blast driving her. May I ask what you are doing in USMC country in O'side??? That is my old stomping grounds - actually O'side and Camp San Mateo up near San Clemente.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Capt. R View Post
                              Dag, thanks for the good info.

                              Maxx - Awesome experience you have there! Must have been a blast driving her. May I ask what you are doing in USMC country in O'side??? That is my old stomping grounds - actually O'side and Camp San Mateo up near San Clemente.
                              Well someone has to keep these Marines in line... I actaully moved up here from San Diego 17 yrs ago cause it was getting to crazy down there.

                              Comment

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