Greztruppen 1990 Uniform

[RedBaran11]

Genossen,
I just won a 1st quarter 1990 Grenztruppen tunic off ebay. It is unissued without insignia, and the cufftitle was never applied. I want to put insignia on it and make it an OHS tunic, but would there still be OHS students in the Grenztruppen in 1990?

[U873]

Sturm had a load of these dated 1990 with now cuff title. Not sure why the cuff title was not added?

[RedBaran11]

I dunno. I have seen tuics w/out cufftitles, but only becuase they were made beofre 1976 (i own one like this). the Wachregiment Friedrich Engels didnt wear cufftitles in 1990 either. Maybe they were trying to get rid of things that might somehow be considered "touchy"? I mean, the Wachreg. cufftitle read "Wachregiment Friedrich Engels", and we all know how he could be associated with marxism/socialism/etc. The staatswappen was also removed form the flag in 1990, and starting in July (i think) Bundeswehr cockades began to pop up on caps. And I'm sure the Grenztruppen wren't the most loved orginization in the DDR.

Maybe this means Stasi tunics didnt have cufftitles in 1990 either?

[U873]

The Walther Band II insignia book # 1393 states the Grenz cuff title was in use from 1976 - 1990.

[torstenbel]

Genossen,
I just won a 1st quarter 1990 Grenztruppen tunic off ebay. It is unissued without insignia, and the cufftitle was never applied. I want to put insignia on it and make it an OHS tunic, but would there still be OHS students in the Grenztruppen in 1990?

I think most certainly yes at the beginning of the year, but they would have all been sent home or transferred into different roles/units at some point in 1990. There certainly was no new intake of Offiziersschueler der NVA or GT on any of the military colleges in 1990. Cheers, Torsten.

[Mike G.]

Hi RedBaran11,

Regarding your question concerning wearing of the cuff band by the MfS Wachregiment in 1990 .....

They were the first military organ dismantled and ceased to exist shortly after the fall of the wall in 1989. They didn't make it to 1990.

[Kartofelpreußer]

I also just got one of these, and was interested to read this thread.

It certainly isn't surprising that the cuff title's dates of use extend to 1990-- everyone in the Grenztruppen going into 1990 would have been wearing one, and it seems absurd that a state on its way to collapse as the DDR was then would take the time and effort to have everyone in such a huge organization go to the tailors to get their cuff bands removed.

Clearly the DDR was producing GT tunics without the cuff band in the early days of 1990, almost certainly to back off from political sensitivites, as mentioned earlier.

What is not clear:

Were these tunics ever issued? I would have to assume that, given the state of the border in 1990, and the country itself, that the DDR was not exactly beefing up the GT, so any new uniform issues during that year would be few, at best. Does anyone have photographic evidence of these cuff-title-less uniforms being worn?

Was the DDR producing GT tunics both with and without the cuff titles? Theoretically this could have happened: The state could have been hedging its bets. Some firms could have kept producing with titles due to poor communication or, more likely, the transition from cufftitles to none could have happened at some point during the 1st quarter of 1990, so that earlier tunics with that code would have them, and later ones would not.

Just as plausible, if not moreso, is the possibility that Sturm got hold of large chunks of the 1990 production run without the titles, and had the cuff titles added themselves, in order to increase the salability of the pieces.

I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on this, as well as any additional information anyone might have.

[Rev462]

I am absolutely convinced that the Grenztruppen ceased to use cuff titles in 1990, probably at about the same time that Staatswappen cockades were replaced with West German style bullseyes.

I have a used Grenztruppen officer tunic that shows clear evidence that a cuff title was removed. I also have a couple unissued tunics that never had a cuff title.

Whether the ones manufactured without cuff title were ever issued, I don't know. But clearly there were tunics in service that did have their cuff titles removed.

[Flash00TA]

Hello, I hope everyone is staying safe and healthy in this crazy times. One of the things I've been doing to pass the time is translating some parts of various German reference books I have on the Grenztruppen, which is my primary collecting interest. While going through old threads here on the forum, I found this one about the removal of the Grenztruppen cuff titles from uniforms in 1990, and this piqued my interest for two reasons: the first is that I also have a I/D dated, unissued GT tunic in my collection that appears to have never had the cuff title added, and of which I've added photos to this post. The second reason is that while skimming through one of my books, "Ausgegrenzt: der Fall der DDR Grenztruppen" written by Volker Koop in 1993, there are two pages (pages 94 and 95) that deal specifically with this topic in the chapter about GT Oberst Walter Halbich, who served in Berlin between 1980 and 1990. The very last section of the chapter on Halbich is entitled "Für einen Monat noch ohne den Ärmelstreifen", or for a month without the cuff title. Using Google translate, I translated these two pages. I'm sure its not perfect, but its good enough to get the point across about how things were at the time. I thought it may be of interest so here is the translation of those two pages:

"In the weeks after November 9th, many members of the Grenztruppen – including Colonel Walter Halbich - felt betrayed and let down by their leadership, which they had believed in for so long. "You have to be so sober because the new Politburo obviously didn't realize that with the few changes they were willing to make, something could still be achieved in terms of preserving the state."
For him the most exciting phase of his professional life began in January 1990. At the time of the Modrow government, he received the order to incorporate the disassembled passport control units, which were previously under the Ministry of State Security, into the Grenztruppen as far as the Berlin area was concerned. 2,000 of the former 4,500 PKE members left the service from the start, and 2,500 were taken over by the Grenztruppen. At this point, the first considerations were made to set up a GDR border protection (Grenzschutz) organization in place of the Grenztruppen. There was still no talk of affiliation, integration or the "defeat" of the GDR. On the contrary. Not even after the re-election of the government under de Maizière. He had to go to Strausberg for the inaugural speech of the new Minister for Disarmament and Defence Rainer Eppelmann on May 2nd, where the illusion of a second army on German soil had been spread, and there was talk of an independent army on the territory of the GDR, even after state reunification. And he would never forget Minister Eppelmann's visit to the Drewitz Autobahn border crossing, where, in May 1990, he had made extraordinary praises about the Grenztruppen and their tasks. Soon after, however, the words of praise ended. First contacts had long been made between the NVA and the Bundeswehr, between Grenztruppen and Bundesgrenzschutz, and it was already certain that no united units of the border guards would have any chance of survival. The word had gotten around that the Grenztruppen should have the same status as the Ministry for State Security, that is, that of a criminal organization. Although the Strausberg ministry was able to avert this classification from the hardliners in Bonn, particularly with reference to the history of the formation of the Grenztruppen, it was nevertheless clear that no one would be taken over by the border troops.
The border guards were again duped with another illusion. The possibilities to find professional advancement in a new GDR Grenzschutz were suggested. Colonel Walter Halbich also believed in it and had every reason to do so. He had not only applied for a job; he had been accepted by the Personnel Council (Personalrat) and started his new job in the Grenzschutzkommando Ost in August 1990. There were close contacts with the Bundesgrenzschutz in Hanover, and the "newly minted" GDR Grenzschützer Halbich had set about working on the formation of a staff and on ideas for further spatial accommodation. Tasks were formulated, structures developed - up to a Friday in September. For Walter Halbich, his short time in Grenzschutz ended with a note from his commander that he did not have to appear again on Monday. He could complain to the Personnel Council - which he refrained from doing however, in view of his realistic assessment of the situation. Once again, until September 30th, he put on his Grenzer uniform and spent his last days of service once again at the Grenzkommando Mitte. This example shows how unreal the last days of the border troops were: "We were allowed to remove the green cufftitle from the uniform for a month and put on the gray cap next to it. Originally, we were even supposed to wear the uniform of the land forces, but we never went through with that. The Grenztruppen, it was irrefutable, could no longer exist from September 1st, 1990 - just like that."
In any case, only a few Grenzer were admitted to the Grenzschutz of the GDR in the short period of its existence, Walter Halbich recalls. Although, for example, there would have been tasks for such Grenzschutz at the borders with the CSSR or Poland, including at Schönefeld airport, in practice the Grenzer were treated as members of a criminal organization and were either not admitted to the Grenzschutz or pushed out. "And, of course, it must also be seen that the leadership of the Ministry of the Interior has been able to accommodate the Volkspolizei in the Grenzschutz. One by one they were brought in, and everyone that came from the Grenztruppen was released. The problem was solved so easily."
In view of this way of dealing with people, the "playing with marked cards" and the premise of ever new illusions, it is hardly surprising that Walter Halbich met the new era with skepticism. He puts his finger in an open wound when he says: "I think it is a very big mistake that nothing was done by the de Maizière government or later by Chancellor Kohl, to put all those people who are now called “potential conflict” in a position of being secure socially. You must see that the members of the NVA and the Grenztruppen are not doing much better than those of the Ministry of State Security." One could not say that the NVA had been integrated - the GDR was - but the NVA was defeated."

Unfortunately it does not give an exact date for when the cuff titles were removed, but the whole "a month without the cuff title" heading would leave one to believe in August or September. Because I don't know exactly how well the translation for this specific topic survived Google translate, here is the original German text and maybe a native German speaker, or someone more knowledgeable and fluent than I could give us a better description: "Wir durften für einen Monat noch die grünen Ärmelstreifen von der Uniform entfernen und uns daneben noch die graue Mütze aufsetzen. Ursprünglich sollten wir sogar noch die Uniform der Landstreitkräfte tragen, das allerdings haben wir dann nicht mehr mitgemacht. Die Grenztruppen, das war unumstößlich, durfte es ab dem 1. September 1990 nich mehr geben - einfach so."

I hope everyone finds this post both interesting and informative and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of other collectors!

[Ralph P]

Flash00TA - thanks for your latest post, interesting.

[Mike G.]

Flash00TA. Outstanding and very informative "Post". Thank you for the followup to this thread and the details of the dissolution of the Grenztruppen after the fall of the Wall.

[tony james]

Flash00TA
great story about what oberst Halbich experienced at the end. Very informative and enjoyable post to read.

[uscob]

I also just got one of these, and was interested to read this thread.


What is not clear:

Were these tunics ever issued? I would have to assume that, given the state of the border in 1990, and the country itself, that the DDR was not exactly beefing up the GT, so any new uniform issues during that year would be few, at best. Does anyone have photographic evidence of these cuff-title-less uniforms being worn?

Was the DDR producing GT tunics both with and without the cuff titles? Theoretically this could have happened: The state could have been hedging its bets. Some firms could have kept producing with titles due to poor communication or, more likely, the transition from cufftitles to none could have happened at some point during the 1st quarter of 1990, so that earlier tunics with that code would have them, and later ones would not.

Just as plausible, if not moreso, is the possibility that Sturm got hold of large chunks of the 1990 production run without the titles, and had the cuff titles added themselves, in order to increase the salability of the pieces.

I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on this, as well as any additional information anyone might have.

As I learned in the early 90's when we picked up Stuff directly from the Factories is, that they wanted to fullfill all previous Orders to make money, at first to have some and 2nd to have it for modernisations of the Factories to be fit for the new, unknown Chalenge of a modern way of Economy.
For the Yes and no of the Cuff Titles, I guess that they used all Stocks of prefixed parts, so they also used Cufftitled Sleeves for the Tunics.

That was the same for many other factories too.
The interesting thing about Burger Bekleidungswerke is, that we also got Bundeswehr Flecktarn what was made for the "Klassenfeind".
I remember times when it was forbidden to get or sell Flecktarn Stuff because of the Infrared scattering Fabric so that the bad, bad Warsaw Pact States couldn't get it, but the Fabric by the yard was sent to the east to manufacture the new ones in the DDR.
Haha, what a joke! Seriously, we in the west couldn't understand what happened but the officials thought it's right as they do.