these are grenztruppen officers with a jacket with open collar from 1974.I thought these where worn from 1975.
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The back side off the pictureOriginally posted by Stefas View Post -
Hi Stephas,
That is a very neat find - actual real photo and not a copy, as is so often the case. That will certainly be a nice addition to your collection from a historical perspective.
1974 was the official cut-off date for wear of the dark collar uniform and presumably, there would have been a transition period on either side of 1974. So it would make sense that certain units in the NVA and the Grenztruppen would have received the open collar uniform early, for test purposes. Also, the transition from dark collar to open collar presumably would already have begun occurring in some units. The open collar uniform was not really a new innovation. The NVA Air Force always wore the open collar uniform from its inception in 1956. And the Air Borne began wearing it in 1969.
Olivia and Garulfo both, if memory serves me correctly, have posted examples of Grenztruppen open collar uniforms dated prior to 1974. This has been a hot topic of discussion hear on the forum, and seems to support the premise that indeed, the open collar uniform was issued to some units prior to the 1974 cut-off date for wear of the dark collar tunics.
The dark collar tunics continued to be produced and to be worn well after 1974. I have photos (In books - not like your photo unfortunately) showing NVA wearing the dark collar all the way up to 1978, although without question the occurrences are very rare. I actually have a very nice dark collar wooly uniform dated 1979. I doubt it was ever worn.
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I'm very intrigued by your picture and it is a really great find. Can you share more information about it?
Do you know some information about the Grenztruppen Unit?
It would be interesting to know where the picture was taken and what Grenztruppen Unit is depicted in the picture.
Also, the flag on parade is very interesting in appearance. It does not look like a Regimental Flag, so I'm presuming it is some kind of Troopen Flag. Can you tell us more?
Great find.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Mike if I remember well the conclusion we drew from those hot discussions was that our end of 1960s dated open collar tunics (my GT ones being dated from 1969) were in fact former dark collar ones turned into open collar ones in the middle of the 1970s (1973/74/75?)... the modifications inside the tunic clearly proves this alteration ! Open collar tunics manufactured from 1974 on shold not show the same !Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View Post
He is a picture of a tunic earlier posted on the forum
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Thanks Olivia,
I seem to recollect someone had an open collar grenz tunic dated 1972. Maybe my memory is fading.
For sure, the Grenztruppen that are in the photo about which this thread is focused, are not wearing modified tunics.
I'm therefore inclined to believe the open collar tunic was issued to some units prior to 1975. I think 1974 being the cut-off date for wear of the dark collar uniform, the transition between the two would naturally begin occurring that same year.
I certainly would like to know more about the unit that is in the photograh.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Not at all, you are quite right, the picture is that of the tunic you are thinking of... "B" marked !Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View PostComment
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hi guys
i have a named panzer officer open collar tunic dated 3rd quarter 1973. it's not a dark collar makeover.
tonyComment
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Here is a photo I made with the differencies (from bottom to top) between an open collar tunic, a converted dark collar tunic and finally a dark collar tunic. Notice on the converted tunic the closed top buttonhole.
An the thread about the subject :
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...lar+conversion
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All this information about converted dark collar tunics to open collar tunics is very good to know information - however, it doesn't help Stefas with his thread and his question about the fact the photo he posted shows Grenztruppen in 1974 wearing open collar tunics. These tunics surely are not going to be converted dark collar tunics.
Tony too brought up an interesting point. He has a 1973 dated open collar tunic that is not a dark collar conversion.
Any thoughts?Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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hello Michael,I've got 2 other pics .I will show them.I've got no further information off these foto's.Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View Post
The flag is for 25 years GDR,socialistischen wetbewerb ore something like that.Comment
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Thanks for the followup Stefas,
I had hoped your thread would generate more posts addressing your question about the apparent and obvious wear of open collar tunics (at least by some Grenz Units) prior to 1975. Maybe there will still be more to come.
I'm sure we have some old, long time collectors with a great deal of collecting knowledge stored inside their gray brain matter, who hopefully will contribute some additional posts to this thread.
Thanks for the update regarding the flag in the picture.
One thing for sure - that is a very nice photograph.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Following Keubke book : The decision to give the career soldiers a more "fashionable" uniform took place the 10 july 1972. The new collection was showed to the defence minister the 3 mai 1973, production began 3rd semester of 1973. The new uniform started to be worn for parade the 1st october 1974. Introduced at 1st october 1975 as the new service uniform.
So, no problem with the picture, this uniform stated to be worn for parade only in 1974, for the 25th anniversary of the DDR.Comment
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Garulfo,
This was the information needed. Great job.
Thank you sincerely for clarifying why the open collar tunics were being worn by a Grenztruppen Unit in 1974. They looked comfortable in them and it was clear they had been wearing them for time.
Again, thank you.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Another pictureOriginally posted by Michael D. Gallagher View PostHi Stephas,
I'm very intrigued by your picture and it is a really great find. Can you share more information about it?
Do you know some information about the Grenztruppen Unit?
It would be interesting to know where the picture was taken and what Grenztruppen Unit is depicted in the picture.
Also, the flag on parade is very interesting in appearance. It does not look like a Regimental Flag, so I'm presuming it is some kind of Troopen Flag. Can you tell us more?
Great find. Comment
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