I don't recognize this cuff stripe on this luft uniform. Anyone know what it is?
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It's a Hauptfeldwebel (Spiess) strip. -
Thank You.
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Seeker:
A slight correction.
The wide cuff tress was worn by either Hauptfeldwebel (a position usually given to senior NCO's) or Hauptfaenrich (a position for Warrant Officers). Both were referred to as "der Spiess".
To my knowledge, the sleeve patch was worn by all Warrant Officers but not by NCO's.
The tunic in your photo is for a Hauptfaenrich.Comment
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An observation, and it may mean nothing.
The Warrant Officer sleeve patch on the Tunic in this thread has no diamonds. It would be interesting to see the actual rank (shoulder boards).
Would it be possible for a Warrant Officer with less than 11 years service to be a Hauptfaenrich?
History on the Warrant Officer sleeve patch.
The warrant officer shoulder patch for NVA was first introduced in 74 and continued in wear until 1990. There were four examples, total.
One plain - like the one on the Tunic.
One with a single diamond.
One with two diamonds.
And finally, one with three diamonds.
Warrant Officer sleeve patch. Plain, no diamond.<O
</O
Service Grade:
1974 - 1979 for service up to and inclusive of 10 years.
1979 - 1990 used for all Service Grade Warrant Officer ranks and<ST1 <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PlaceName>Officer</st1:PlaceName><st1:PlaceType>School</st1:PlaceType></ST1 cadets, regardless of time of service.
Warrant Officer sleeve patch. One diamond.
Starting from 11 years service extending to 15 years service.
Warrant Officer sleeve patch. Two diamonds.
Starting from 16 years service extending to 20 years service.
Warrant Officer sleeve patch. Three diamonds.
Starting from 21 years service.Last edited by Michael D. Gallagher; 07-16-2008, 08:31 AM.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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shoulderboards:
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The rank is okay for a Hauptfaenrich.
Richard or Garulfo,
If I understand the meaning of the Walther Band II Book, diamonds were done away with entirely, regardless of time in service, in 1979. Is that correct?
If correct, and the Tunic is dated either side within a few years of 79, I'm thinking then probably it is good to go and everything is okay.
Any thoughts?
Seeker007 - nice looking AF Der Spiess Tunic by the way
Last edited by Michael D. Gallagher; 07-16-2008, 08:32 AM.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Between 1974 and 1979, the diamonds on the sleeve patch indicated the years of service. Always 2 pips on the shoulderboards.
After 1979, diamonds were withdrawn of the sleeve patch and the pips on the shoulderboards (from 1 to 4) indicated the rank. Apparenty the number of years of service was no longer noticed.
BTW, I never heard of a "Hauptfänhrich" before. Is it the same function as a "Hauptfeldwebel" ? In the Keubke book they are only talking of "Hauptfeldwebel" for both NCO and fänhrich ranks.Comment
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Garulfo,
Thanks for the response. Sometimes I have difficulty enterpreting Klaus Walther and his books - in this case, Band II.
I thought I got it right, but wasn't sure.
I suspect the Tunic in question is dated a few years either side of 1979, which then would make sense that the warrant patch has no diamonds. They were no longer used as indicators of time in service. One would think the Treuedienst Medal would have served this purpose anyway. So it seems it would have been redundent to include time in service on the warrant sleeve patch as well. I guess in 79 the light bulb went on and someone realized this and made the change.
Regarding your question about Der Spiess, based upon previous discourse with Dag and with Dirk, the two positions were basically the same. It was initially a Warrant Officer position, but I think because there were so few and they were technicians and needed in their primary duty role, the NVA realized Senior NCOs making a career of the NVA could fill the niche. So the position or role of Der Spiess was extended to Senior NCOs when and where needed. At least that is the way I have come to understand it, after talking with former NVA NCOs and Officers.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Mike,
Just a little addition to Garulfo's post. As far as I know, between 1974 & 1979 there was only one Warrant Officer rank - "Faenrich". All Warrant Officers wore two pips on their shoulder boards.
In 1979, the pips on the sleeve patch were eliminated and several different grades of Faenrich were introduced - from 1 to 4 pips on the shoulderboards.
NCO's acting as "der Spiess" is a practice going all the way back to the beginning of the NVA. I agree that "Hauptfeldwebel" and "Hauptfaenrich" are essentially equivalent.
I'd have to check the Walther book to see if "Hauptfaenrich" is explicitly mentioned.Comment
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Guys,
The Hauptfeldwebel is a position, not a rank. A Faehnrich or Oberfaehnrich would still be known as the Hauptfeldwebel.
DagComment
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So Garulfo is correct about the position being Hauptfeldwebel regardless whether filled by an NCO or Warrant Officer.
Thanks Dag for the clarification and reminder. Sometimes the term "Der Spiess" is used so much one tends to forget the actual official term is Hauptfeldwebel.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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