Fantasy Or Not?

[Matthew S.]

http://cgi.ebay.com/EAST-GERMAN-GENE...742.m153.l1262

Never heard of this before... real or not?

[uscob]

To me it's a fake.
Looks like a EM Red Cross Cap with added Strafvollzug Generals Cap Badge. The Cord looks like a civy, Shooters Assn. one.
Nico

[torstenbel]

never heard or seen something like this before...does anyone know the identity of this seller? Is he a member of this forum?

[usmedalman]

Dealer's name is Paul Spomar. I bought and sold some stuff with him about five years ago, always fair with me.

[Gordon Craig]

Paul Spomar is not a member of this forum. I have bought uniforms from him in the past. I will not do so in the future.

Regards,

Gordon

[ehrentitle]

His e-bay username is lastfrontline and he specializes in General's uniforms and high end medals and decorations. Although lately he has started to list more common NVA material. I have not bought from him so I can't comment on the authenticity of the items he sells. But I believe there has been discussion on this forum if some of the higher end medals he has offered for sale are original or post unification reproductions.

[Rev462]

Subdued visor hats for officers and generals did indeed exist, although I have my doubts about this particular example. It's hard to tell for sure in this photo how accurate the color is. The piping should be either the same color as the crown or an olive/gray color. The wreath pictured in Walther has a dark, olive colored backing and the wreath embroidery a lighter, olive/brown color.

According to Walther, insignia for the "graue effektiert" uniform (hat wreaths and collar tabs) were worn from 1959-64. Given the phase-out period that usually accompanied significant changes in uniform regulations, I would think it reasonable that subdued uniforms & hats were worn into the late 60's.

This hat is dated 1971, which I think is a bit late to be wearing the subdued uniform. In addition, I do know that the subdued general's wreaths have been faked.

I don't think this hat is Red Cross, being that is marked "DDR". Unless someone has switched out the entire lining. I suppose it's possible - that sort of thing happens all the time with 3rd Reich visors (placing original liners into fake shells). Perhaps thats what happened here - maybe the shell has been doctored or is completely fake.

A subdued general's visor hat sold on the Carsten Zeige auction site several months ago for 1700 EU. That hat was dated 1968 and it looked completely OK to me. I even bid on it but was blown out the water.

This hat MAY BE original, but I would not be willing to take the gamble on it. Only an in-person examination would suffice, and even then you may not know for sure.

[iannima]

I know NOTHING about early visor hats like this one allegedly is. But those oak leaves look anything but subdued to me... I appreciate that this is supposed to be a General's hat but the subdued insignia for officers look VERY different, and if there was a logic in it at all, it was to make people less conspicuous, hence the removal of the stripes from the Stiefelhose etc. etc. Now that gold embroidery is VERY conspicuous in my books...
Moreover if one allegedly genuine hat like this, sold for €1700 before... I would say that that would provide ample incentive to try and doctor one. Whether this was done by the vendor himself or someone else before him, is beside the point.
I certainly have not got €1700 (nor $1250) to squander on a hat... nor indeed am I interested in General's hats... so it is not even a starter for me, but even if it were, my personal feeling would be to steer clear...

[David H]

Interesting debate, this hat has been on ebay before and it stayed unsold then too. I would basically go with what Rick has already said, but go a little further. The hat in question is plain wrong, the insignia is fake and has only a passing resemblance to an original (see below). A variety of fake subdued insignia has been produced mainly on wool uniform material, which was not the case for the originals, and the metallic cords should not be on it.

I bought some items from this seller quite a few years ago, which were fine, but over the last few years he has been offering more and more copies. It must be said he does put up original items, but unless you really know your subject it is dangerous game to be playing. Over the last year I have been contacted twice by fellow members seeking advice on the authenticity of some of the generals uniform elements, to be fair the seller has provided them with more detailed pictures, but on both occasions these pictures have proved the items to be fake...
I would like to think the seller doesn't realise that these items are wrong, but if that is the case, the lack of knowledge about the subject for someone who specialises in it is very worrying........!

[Rev462]

David:

Thanks for the additional comments.

I too have purchased some generals' uniforms from this seller a few years ago and there is no question that they are superb quality and 100% original. I'm sure that many of his current offerings are also 100% authentic.

However, over the past couple years or so this seller has been allowing more & more questionable material into his inventory.

As David has said, perhaps he honestly feels the items are genuine. But when you run with the big dogs, you gotta do your homework or you will get burned.

[Matthew S.]

I had bought one item from him in the past (Grenztruppen uniform, several years back). The item was fine though there was a small stir about payment. Personally, I would buy from him again if I was sure about the item. But this particular hat was something I had never heard of existing and got my paranoia working...