Questions Re: Black-Collar Pz Officer's Tunic

[stonemint]

Gents--as most of you know, my specialty is headgear, but I recently picked this up for a cheap price. It is a Panzer Hauptmann's tunic with the dark collar. I am most familiar with TR tunics--this one, for an officer's, is not a gabardine or Trikot--its what I would describe as "blanket-wool" quality. So I guess my first question would be, is this an EM/NCO "upgraded" to officer status?:

[stonemint]

Color of the shoulder boards is pink, but the litzen on the collar have white (infantry) in them--would this combo ever be correct? (Tabs are metal, the white is wool or cotton):

[stonemint]

Under-side of the collar--no evidence of any other collar-tabs:

[stonemint]

Tunic markings--I believe this is for 1972:

[stonemint]

Found this in the pocket--factory tag:

[stonemint]

reverse of tag:

[stonemint]

Tried to get a shot of the lower-grade wool on this, but it didn't turn out too well. There are signs of a ribbon bar, at most:

[stonemint]

Hat is the wrong year for the tunic, as it has a bullion wreath, but its intentions that count.

Anyway, let me know if I have to "downgrade" him to NCO, and transfer him back to the infantry!

[iannima]

My guess is yes that it is a reworked EM tunic that has been "upgraded" I suggest you check the cuffs: on an EM, with VERY few exceptions that in any case would not have existed in 1972, there should have been white piping at the cuffs. Can you see evidence of its having been "posthumosly" removed? You know the signs: odd colour of the thread, evidence of previous lines of stitching etc.

[iannima]

Oh I forgot to say: those Kragenspiegel have been added in a truly atrocious way !
I can do a better job blindfolded...
On the whole I suspect an attempt at producing a Wehrmacht Feldbluse that stopped short of adding the breast eagle...
As someone said to me fairly recently, these are crimes that not even blood can wash away...

[David H]

Sorry Stonemint, but, Matteo is 100% correct this one has been totally 'sturmed'....at least this one still has the silver buttons, alot have had field grey ones added...

[stonemint]

Oh, well-it was a cheap purchase--time to "degrade" him back to buck private!

[Rev462]

Stonemint:

I agree with David & Matteo. This looks like a typical dark collar EM that has had the cuff piping removed (to make it more closely resemble a WWII tunic) and officer collar tabs applied.

Unpiped EM service tunics did exist, but they are extremely rare - I have only seen probably less than half a dozen for sale since the Wall came down!

Sturm, a surplus export/import company based in Germany with an office in the US, made up quite a few of these "conversions" a few years ago (perhaps they're still doing it now). I got stuck with one myself before I knew of the "Sturmization" process! (Mine has repro, field gray WWII buttons.)

I'm sure they were done for the WWII re-enactor market, or for those who want cheap WWII repros.

Take a close look at the top of the French cuff - you should be able to see stitch marks where the piping was once attached.

[stonemint]

Gents:

There is absolutely no trace of any stitch holes from prior piping--this tunic never had any piping on the cuffs.

I see no evidence that it was upgraded to be a wehrmacht tunic--there is no extra stitching under the collar from previous tabs(and why use metal and not cloth tabs?). While the hand-stitching on the reverse of the collar looks loose, the tabs are sewn on very tightly.

I can post close-ups of the cuffs this weekend if anyone would like to see them.

I agree, the tunic has officers tabs on an O/R quality tunic--or was this done during the period?

[iannima]

There is absolutely no trace of any stitch holes from prior piping--this tunic never had any piping on the cuffs.

I would refer you to the photograph posted by David_H on this thread (post 16):

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=202036&page=2

That they have done a good job at removing the piping and stitching it back together can certainly be true. However a genuine unpiped EM tunic is a rare beast that existed for a very brief period in the early 1960s, as far as available evidence shows. From what we know, which is by necessity patchy, a B=1972 dated such tunic is impossible.