KD/ Regulier Hat

[Mike G.]

And they just keep coming:

[Mike G.]

And another:

[Mike G.]

And again:

[Mike G.]

Is there another one in the hat? I think there is .....

Last one for this show - Warrant and Unteroffizier in the background.
Hope all of this in some small way helps.

[iannima]

Oh Michael!!! Thank you!
This is marvelous... and it does help me a lot.
As always some questions are answered and new ones come forward
Let's look at the last photograph. There is no question to me that the vehicle and presumably the two visibler soldiers in the background are NVA and not Volkspolizei, because of the decal on the door and the A with umlaut on the front... propably part of a "milit******228;r... something.
But what is the rank of the guy in front? The shoulder boards are not that clear but the tresse on the collar would indicate this to be a Feldwebel of some description and he is wearing the slip on white cover rather than the white banded hat that the Keubke Kunz book indicates as the appropriate headgear. You suggest he might be a Warrant officer by which I presume to mean that he is a F******228;nrich. Did F******228;nriche ever have tresse on the collar? And other ranks Kragenspiegel and black chinstrap? The other guy by the open door of the vehicle must be only a Gefreiter as no Tresse is visible on his collar. That would prompt yet another question: did these hats with the white band come in Filz cloth too? All the example I have seen from other people's collections are made of gabardine.

[Mike G.]

Matteo,

That is something I noted too. Both soldiers are NVA Regulators (The pictures were part of a story done about them). So that is for certain. The caption beneath this particular photo clearly identifies the soldier out front as a Warrant Officer. The white cloth cover on the visor hat suggests this. But I have to admit there is what appears to be collar tress on the collar of the Tunic. Additionally, the shoulder boards could be Faehnrich, or they could be Stabsfeldwebel. Most noticeable of all, is that the chin cord on the visor hat is leather, and not the silver braided cord that would be authorized for wear by a Faehnrich.

I'm therefore lead to beleave the other possibility, if the shoulder boards indeed are Stabsfeldwebel, would be the soldier in the foreground is a Hauptfeldwebel. They as you are well aware, were authorized if they wanted, and their respective Commander did not object, the wear of gabardine and of the officer insignia on their visor hat, and wear of the brown belt. However, I would have thought the wear of the white band, and not the white cloth cover, would still be the appropriate identification to be worn on the Visor Hat. Perhaps this was more a means by which to identify a Regulator on a multiple Regulator Team both as a Regulator and leader.

I'm leaning more toward believing the caption that goes with this picture to be incorrect, and the fellow in the foreground, to be a Hauptfeldwebel. The leather chin strap really does it for me.

I agree the picture is interesting, and confusing with respect to the soldier in the foreground. However, it was the depiction of the Unteroffizier in the background that lead me to use it. Perhaps we should ingnore the bloke in the foreground until some of our esteemed former NVA colleagues can look this one particular photo over, and share their thoughts.

[olivyaya]

Great pictures Mike !!! Thank you !!!
Have you noticed the cap wreath is of officer type ?

[Mike G.]

Yes,

I commented that the position of Hauptfeldwebel (Der Spiess) is authorized to wear the officer wreath (and brown belt).

[olivyaya]

Yes Mike I remember since I have a 1965 dated GT NCO cap with the officer 2 part wreath ; I just lacked a picture evidence (I do not mean I was suspecting your info to be uncorrect) ... which I have now !

[Mike G.]

Hi Olivier,

Probably I should have commented that in addition to the position of Hauptfeldwebel, Senior Career NCOs also sometimes are authorized the wear of the Officer Insignia on their headgear.

I think it is important to make clear the separation of the position of "Der Spiess" and that of a Career Senior NCO. The position of "Der Spiess" could be filled by either a Senior Career NCO (usually a Stabsfeldwebel) or a Warrant Officer. The position was identified by the presence of white tress on both sleeve cuffs of the Tunic.

Career NCOs sometimes were authorized the wear of officer grade clothing, the officer insignia on their visor hat, brown belt and white shirt with tie, without necessarily being a "Der Spiess".

I see this a lot with the Grenztruppen. What I have never seen supported by photographic evidence is the position of Hauptfeldwebel or "Der Spiess" in the Grenztruppen. I've never seen photo evidence of Grenz Senior NCOs or Warrant Officers with the white tress on their Tunic Cuffs. I therefore suspect this position did not exist in the Grenztruppen. It didn't exist to my knowledge in the Volksmarine and not in the Air Force either. It did to my surprise exist in the Fallschirmjager. But I've only seen photographic evidence of it with respect to them, in pictures dated after they came under the command of the Land Forces.

Perhaps our "Esteemed" former NVA Colleagues can shed more light on which branches of the service had this position, and which did not.

[olivyaya]

One more picture


The man at back looks like to have the grey chinstrap... the collar tabs seem to be OR's
The officer in front seems to have the early KVP collar tabs !! His cocade looks strange... could it be a GST one ?

[olivyaya]

Close up

[Mike G.]

Based upon the Collar Insignia, the individual in the forefront appears to be Polizei. I believe the fellow in the background also is Polizei.

They don't appear to be NVA or NVA Regulators.

I'm not sure about the cap badge, but perhaps it is the older type that had the tri-color shield on it, or to my thinking, the officer in the forefront is an other ranks officer and the chin strap, which on a black and white photo is difficult to discern colorwise, is green. Not sure. The cockade in the cap insignia is difficult to make out.

[olivyaya]

You must be right Mike... I 1st thought the jackets were strichtarn... after close check they appear there are not ...
Sorry about that !

[Mike G.]

No Harm done.

Olivier, if its not too much trouble, perhaps you can downsize your pics just a wee bit. They are spilling out of the right side of my computer monitor.

Cheers,