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**torstenbel** · 09-16-2005, 11:07 AM

I would guess that the colour is down to the particular material used...but I know the meaning of the word "Gösch" , which is a German Naval term used for the flag of the home port of the ship and it should only be flown on the front (Bug = bow?) of the ship when the ship is in port and not when it is out at sea. the national flag could be flown on the back (Heck = stern??) at all times...but a "Gösch" is also a kind of small flag that is flown on the top of a flag mast in addition to the large national flag and that would normally be the navy flag....so I guess, according to the above definition, your flag should not really be labelled as a "Gösch" ?? Cheers, Torsten.

PS: I got the info from a dictionary that I have got...

**olivyaya** · 09-16-2005, 11:11 AM

Thank U !!

**Mikhealc** · 09-16-2005, 12:41 PM

Gösch

Olivier,

I have one similarly colored...kind of a lemon yellow. Gösch is translated as Jack in English and is a naval flag. Mike

Originally posted by olivyaya

Thank U !!

**iannima** · 09-16-2005, 03:18 PM

As Mike has already said this is a Jack in English nautical terms which indicate the flag that is flown at the bow of the ship whilst in harbour. Effectively it is a way of identifying the nationality of the ship from the bow too as from the stern the appropriate Naval ensign would be flown. The Jack is not necessarily the national flag. It is for Britain (hence probably the common usage of calling the British Flag the Union Jack, whilst in British military circles it is normaly referred as Union Flag), the DDR as this proves, and France. But for the United States Navy it is all blue with all the stars (48 during WW2) so it effectively is the canton of the Star and Stripes but with no stripes. It can sometimes be squarer than the naval ensign but the design changes. Check this website and you can find all the possible variations country by country.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/

The clips are used for connecting the flag to the halyard that hoists the flag on the mast. I have seen several types, one of which I believe is called Inglefeld clip, for reasons I do not know. The principle is simple: a squarish (or triangular in this case) ring of metal has only one split on one side in such a way that a similar ring can be mated and hooked onto it only when they are put together at a particular angle (usually 90°). Once the halyard is pulled down the two rings will never reach again the appropriate angle and will never become divided. The purpose of this contraption is to provide a quick, and secure way of fixing the flag without requiring a poor sailor to do or undo complicated knots in the middle of a storm. (Wet rope does not untie itself easily...)

**torstenbel** · 09-16-2005, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=iannima]As Mike has already said this is a Jack in English nautical terms which indicate the flag that is flown at the bow of the ship whilst in harbour. Effectively it is a way of identifying the nationality of the ship from the bow too as from the stern the appropriate Naval ensign would be flown. The Jack is not necessarily the national flag. It is for Britain (hence probably the common usage of calling the British Flag the Union Jack, whilst in British military circles it is normaly referred as Union Flag), the DDR as this proves, and France. QUOTE]

The dictionary that I have got says that a GÖSCH is the flag of the home port of the ship and not the national flag...it is a west german dictionary and maybe, this is what the GÖSCH traditionally used to be??...maybe in the ddr navy there were no home port flags being used and they simply replaced it with the national flag???...does someone have a photo of a DDR Navy ship in port, where it is possible to make out all the flags flown? Cheers, Torsten.

**Mike G.** · 09-16-2005, 06:51 PM

I've looked at all the photos I have of East German Military Naval (Volksmarine) Ships in Port I have, and none of them seem to show any flags of any kind. Maybe there was not sufficient wind blowing to expose their location and unfurl the flag(s)?

**iannima** · 09-17-2005, 01:33 AM

If you have Soldaten des Volkes Teil 2 there is one clear photograph of the usage of this flag on page 116 top left coner. A sailor in Orange gear is lowering/hoisting it from the mast at the bow end of the ship.

Torsten, I have a been a flag fanatic for years and I have often noticed that dictionaries are hopelessly inaccurate about these matters. Encyclopaedias are cryptic, dictionnaries are inaccurate...
Whilst in a foreign harbour a MILITARY vessel would fly at least THREE flags:
1) the naval ensign at the stern flagpole (not be flown there whilst at sea);
2) the jack at the bow;
3) and the flag of the host country on one of the masts.
A CIVILIAN vessel, would definitely fly 1 and 3 but not all countries have a Jack for the merchant navy. Italy doesn't for instance. But Britain does: it is the Union Jack with a white border.
Perhaps in Germany, having been unified that recently (as Italy) and having had some form of federal structure for ages, civilian ships flew at the bow end the flag of whichever Hanseatic port they came from as a token gesture to their regional allegiance. So flag 2 would change all the time.
But a military vessel would only fly the appropriate Jack.
My Grundwissen has a colour table of the Naval flags of all the Warsaw pact countries and it shows the Volksmarine flag and (smaller) this flag, identical to the national one, as a Gösch. It does the same for Poland and USSR: first a Seekriegsflagge, then a Gösch.

**torstenbel** · 09-17-2005, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by iannima

Torsten, I have a been a flag fanatic for years and I have often noticed that dictionaries are hopelessly inaccurate about these matters. Encyclopaedias are cryptic, dictionnaries are inaccurate...

My Grundwissen has a colour table of the Naval flags of all the Warsaw pact countries and it shows the Volksmarine flag and (smaller) this flag, identical to the national one, as a Gösch. It does the same for Poland and USSR: first a Seekriegsflagge, then a Gösch.

Matteo you are, aren't you...??.

that would be it then...I thought (but did not check) that the Volksmarine flag would be different from the DDR national flag and that would then make this flag a Gösch I guess...Cheers, Torsten.

**Mike G.** · 09-17-2005, 09:30 AM

[QUOTE=iannima]If you have Soldaten des Volkes Teil 2 there is one clear photograph of the usage of this flag on page 116 top left coner. A sailor in Orange gear is lowering/hoisting it from the mast at the bow end of the ship.
QUOTE]

Thank you Matteo for the wonderful reference to the illustration (photo) on page 116 of the 2nd Edition Soldaten des Volkes. It looks as though the ship in question is leaving Port, and the flag is being taken down.

Here is the example to which reference was made:

**olivyaya** · 09-17-2005, 12:19 PM

Thank you all for your comments and great help !
I do not remmeber whether I have already shared this one with you or not ...
Here is an earlier Gösh flag ; slightly smaller than the other one ; made of much thicker (poly)cotton material ; no metal rings or hooks. Probably from the early70s/end 60s ?

**Mike G.** · 09-17-2005, 12:44 PM

Here are some more Naval Flag examples:

East German Naval War Ensign:

Attached Files

PICT0001.jpg (106.2 KB, 85 views)

**Mike G.** · 09-17-2005, 12:45 PM

Flag of the Defense Minister:

Attached Files

PICT0005.jpg (90.3 KB, 82 views)

**Mike G.** · 09-17-2005, 12:46 PM

Coastal Frontier Brigade:

Attached Files

PICT0003.jpg (88.7 KB, 82 views)

**torstenbel** · 09-17-2005, 01:54 PM

Michael, thank you for showing those...apart from a Schellenbaum, is there anything that you have not got in your collection? Cheers, Torsten.

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