Scond Photo:
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Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.” -
Third Photo:Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Closeup of Shoulder Board and Collar Tab:
Note: You can see the detail of the Herringbone Weave.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Of interest is that the flipside of the collar has the same type "Support" cross stiching common of Dienst and Parade Tunic Collars.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Michael, I do not wish to sow doubts in your mind about the authenticity of one of your uniforms, which is truly stunning and I am very envious any way... but I am not that convinced that this uniform would have been issued to paratroopers.
For a start this is a very early example dating from the late 1950s, (1960 or 1961 at most) without the lower pockets. The paratroopers are the youngest formation of the NVA and were formed later than that. 1962 according to Keubke-Kunz. The references I have also indicate that the paratroopers were nearly immediately issued with specifically designed combat uniforms which at the time would have been in Blumentarn. Again Keubke-Kunz (which should not be taken as the bible... but it is still something...) state that by the year 1960 the introduction of the Blumentarn had been largely completed throughout the NVA and that the drillich uniforms were dyed black and turned into working uniforms. Everything is obviously possible with the NVA, as old stock uniforms could have been used and the newer four pocketed drillich uniforms must also belong to that period, but I would find rather surprising that the paratroopers, of all units, would have been issued with old stock, given that they really and genuinely have a need for specially designed uniforms... I stand to be corrected. Has anybody got any photographic evidence of paratroopers with these uniforms?
One such uniform came up for sale on Ebay fairly recently. Is this the one? I was again dubious about the Fallschirmjäger litzen to the point that I thought they were far more likely to be faded artillery. But they look bright enough in your photographs. I still think you have a marvelous uniform but I am not that convinced that those Fallschirmjäger insignia on it are genuine.Last edited by iannima; 06-09-2005, 11:45 AM.Comment
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Hi Matteo.
The uniform is genuine and the Litzen also are genuine. I couldn't say that from a photograph of course, but owning it and being able to handle it, I can. The color is indeed orange, and not panzer or artillery. And if one were to look closely at many of the Blumentarn photos, one would see protruding from wearer's neck, the collars of a Drillich Tunic. A lot of collectors for some reason, presume a Dienst Tunic was worn beneath the Blumentarn Pullovers. Actually, the Drillich Tunic was the garment most often worn beneath the Blumentarn Pullovers.
I've no doubt of the authenticy of the Uniform. As to what others might think, they can think whatever they will. I'm certain 100 percent of the authenticity of this garment. The Tunic and Pants are dated 1959. The Litzen is of 1964 origin.
These Tunics were very often worn by the various units issued them as utility uniforms in Garrison. They performed all of the mundane jobs, such as KP, buffing floors, and apparently as this particular uniform has evidence to suggest, "Painting" while wearing them. I presume that is how they were used by the Fallschirmjager.
This type of uniform was used in great numbers very early on by the NVA Air Force. The Fallschirmjager have their birthrights heavenly invested in the Air Force. I presume that is the source for this type uniform being what it is. It was already in use by the Fallschirmjager whilst affiliated with the Air Force, and in 64, when the Fallschirmjager officially separated into its own branch with its own branch color (Orange), they continued to wear Drillich Uniforms in Garrison.
Again, its quite okay with me if you and for that matter, others disagree or have doubts. I own this particular uniform, and it is quite clear to me it is authentic.
I'm very okay with it.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Matteo,
In re-reading through some of the threads, it became apparent to me that you own many of the very good Coffee Table Books that are specific to the Dark Collar era.
If I might suggest, going through them will address a point you bring up about the Blumentarn and the Drillich Uniforms. The pretext they were gathered up and dyed black upon the Blumentarn being issued to the NVA doesn't appear to have been universally carried out. There are many photographs showing use of this uniform well beyond the introduction of Blumentarn. More interesting are apparent Drillich Tunics being worn by the wearer's of the Blumentarn. They can be seen in many of the photographs protruding from beneath the Blumentarn Pullover.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Very nice set, Michael! Yes, this thread did answer my original questions. My new question is - where in the world have all these uniforms gone? I have a couple of the later model Drillichjacke that came from surplus vendors, but until I saw the thread on the early NVA, I wasn't even aware that the earliest jackets were so different from the later ones (I am clearly not equipped with the proper coffee table books. In trying to remedy the situation, I found one of the books you guys recommended on Abebooks and immediately ordered it; but a message came to me a day later stating that the book was not available after all
Maybe another forum reader beat me to it?).
The NVA never fought a war, so these uniforms couldn't have been worn out in battle or in POW camps, or discarded and burnt for sanitary reasons in the aftermath. They are also impervious to moth attacks. So why are they so rare? Don't the soldiers have to turn them in upon completion of their service (so that at least some quantity of them would be stored away in a warehouse somewhere after they were phased out)? I don't think I've even come across any black-dyed ones for sale myself, much less the unmolested examples that you guys have shown here.
I realize that my question can be broadly applied to all early NVA materials and may therefore qualify as somewhat moronic, but I am nevertheless hopeful that I am not the only one who is interested in a learned explanation for the rarity of these artifacts.
Thanks!
Gene TComment
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Hi Gene,
Your questions are profound in my opinion. I think part of the problem regarding the Drillich Uniforms is that they actually were eventually phased out. Unlike other uniforms, that could be constantly refurbished and reissued, there came a point where the Drillich Uniform no longer was used. My gut feeling is that they then became "Rags". Yeah, I know, pretty scary. But I really believe that is what happened. I can honestly see a Tank Crew ramming a Gun Bore Cleaning Rod down the barrell of a T-55 or T-72 Tank with remnants of a Drillich uniform wrapped around the copper bore brush that is being used to clean the bore of a Tank Gun Barrel. I'm speaking from experience. We did this with O.D. Fatigue uniforms in the U.S. Army when we switched from Fatigues to the Battle Dress Uniform.
That asside, the hottest selling collectible uniform items on German ebay are Dark Collar era Dienst and Parade Tunics. If you want to make money on clothing, this is where it is at.
But the fact is, those that are serious into collecting, know the value and worth of a good Drillich Tunic as well.
There were a lot of these uniforms produced, and I believe there are a lot of them that survived. I think in many cases, people who have them, don't understand their value/worth, and that there is a market for them. So they are sitting in some storage area somewhere, collecting dust. Every now and then they find their way to a German East German Military memorabilia Dealer, who knows their worth and value, and then they end up on German Ebay.
Gene, if you want one, all I can do is recommend you periodically search German ebay. Eventually, one or more will appear.
I hope you eventually get one. They are really neat.Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Oh Goody! healthy debate I love it...... re Mikes para tunic,,,
I must say I have no real problem with the idea of these being issued to paras, Indeed I did see one set a few years back in Germany, but silly money was wanted for it. It is obvious all the elements of Mikes tunic are original, but wether they were period applied to the tunic is another question, that can only be assertianed by the owner on unusual items like this, by looking at wear patterns, washing effects, stitching, fading etc. The fact the tunic is dated considerably earlier isn't too much of a problem, I have an unissued 1959 dated one myself, which technically shouldn't exist if regulations are to be believed. This is the one major drawback with the Keubke book, it quotes regulations, which we all know are there to be ignored!!! Lets not forget it was an official period publication and politics played its part,.... a modern state of the art socialist army does not admit its equipment is out of date!!!
Anyway back to the jacket, these are comfy practical clothing, I'd rather wear one of these over its wool counterpart (woolies were definately issued to the paras). As for photographic evidence I've not seen any, but there again I haven't looked for it.
Overall I'd say the ingedients are good but when was it baked!! this topic is definately worthy of more research, great stuff guys, it really is the best way to learn.....Comment
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Gene, to be honest, I am quite surprised that any such examples of old NVA tunics still exist. Soldiers had to turn in all of their equipment (no matter what bad a state it was in) after their service. You were not really supposed to keep anything. If these tunics were not re-usable then they would have been destroyed or rather recycled for use as cleaning rags or whatever, but surely would not have been stored unnecessarily in some warehouse somewhere and certainly not from the 1950's up until 1989. I can only guess, that any old tunics you get to buy now, would have been illegally smuggled out of the barracks for whatever reason and that is how they got to be kept. What I do not know, however, is what the deal was with NVA reservists??...did they have a full set of uniforms at home or did they get issued new uniforms everytime they were called up for reserve training? My guess is, that they would have got new uniforms every time they were called up...???Originally posted by Gene T
Cheers, Torsten.Comment
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Hi Torsten,
I suspect your assumption relevant to the reservists is correct. A little beer with your mates while a civilian, and a little less physical activity on a daily basis, certainly is going to impact negatively on any uniform sizes previously worn, even if you were able somehow, to retain them.
Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Thanks for sharing your perspective, Torsten! Between yours and Michael's earlier response, I think I'm getting a better picture
cheers,
Gene TComment
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Regarding the controversy over the FJ Drillich, I hope the door isn't closed. More comments and insights are most definitely welcome. Maybe Dag, Dirk or Torsten can contact their former NVA friends on one of the many German NVA Forums, and establish contact with someone that served in the FJ between 1962 and say, 1965? I know there is a FJ Forum, but I think they only welcome former NVA Jumpers......, not sure if someone can access it merely to ask questions, as what I've seen of it, it is primarily former members remembering and celebrating old times.
Anyway, that aside, I hope this thread continues and there are more posts of different Drillich examples.
Here is another 1959 example, second quarter. This is a four pocket version, and is very different from the other I previously posted. It is Olive Drab and not cut from the Herringbone weave of the other example. All of the buttons are of the older type that are gold on the backside. Again, there are matching trousers with it.
This particular one was worn by someone formerly at one time in the Grenzpolizei.
Fist Pic:Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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Second Pic:Michael D. GALLAGHER
M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”Comment
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