DDR Fallschirmjäger Troops?

[uscob]

Hi !
I think, the problem with this tunic is, that it is with the White "Waffenfarbe" and not the orange for the Paratroopers.
Here are the old Type Collar Patches for this type of Tunic.
Cheers
Nico

[John F.]

Here is what I could find pertaining to this issue. The collar tabs (Kragenspiegel)with the orange-piped (Waffenfarbe) textile, like the one shown above were in use from 1966-1969. After 1970, the FJ switched to the orange-colored cloth with silver wing design, like the ones shown in my pic. This switch was at the same time they switched to the open collar tunic. In 1982, it was decided to dropped all together the color-piped collar tabs and go with a standard white and the color of the shoulder boards would indicate type of unit.

[Mike G.]

Hi John,

Thanks for the post and information on the Fallschirmjager Kragenspiegel.

To follow up:
In the Klaus Walther Uniformeffekten der bewaffneten Organe der DDR "Band II" Spezialkatalog, there appear on Tables 14 and 15, several examples of the "Orange" Kragenspiegel (Collar Insignia) reserved for wear by Fallschirmjager, worn as early as 1964.

Hi Nico (USCOB),

The Dark Collar Tunic that is in question I think is correct. It is NVA Mechanized Infantry. It just isn't supposed to have a Fallschirmjager specialty patch on it. That is what is wrong. Whether of the enlisted type or officer type, there is no conceivable reason in my mind for a Fallschirmjager specialty patch (of the correct type) to be on anything other than either a Dark Collar Fallschirmjager Tunic (1964 to 1969) or an Open Collar Fallschirmjager Tunic ( 1969 to 1989).

Its important to keep in mind that the Fallschirmjager were separate from the LSK Ground Forces as were the Air Force and the Navy. You wouldn't expect to see Navy specialty patches on a Mech Infantry Tunic, nor would you expect to see blue winged collar insignia on a Mech Infantry Tunic. So why would a Fallschirmjager specialty patch be on a Mech Infantry Tunic?

There were of course some small specialized para-military units in the Volksmarine, Stasi and LSK that were jump qualified. I've not seen evidence of wear of the Fallschirmjager specialty patch in any of the photos that depict these units. They were pretty much of a "Covert" role and mission, and I suspect their respective uniforms didn't encompass much that would give this role away.

But, it certainly is possible that these members of these units did in fact wear this patch on their walking out and their parade Tunics. That was what I was trying to work out with the Tunic posted by SCHUPO. The fact it is conscript I think pretty much rules out the soldier being of one of the unique "Para-military" groups. So even if the Mech Infantry Tunic had, had the NCO type Fallschirmjager specialty patch on the left sleeve, I would have questioned that it should be there at all. Particularly since it is a Conscript Tunic.

In the case discussed here on this Thread, it is definitely wrong. Someone just took an Officer/Warrant Officer Fallschirmjager specialty patch and sewed it to the left sleeve of a Mech Infantry Tunic.

By the way, George informed me the Tunic in question is stamped inside in English, Made in East Germany. This is indicative of the Tunic very likely being a "Sturm" item. It was a known fact that this firm "Mucked" around with their stuff. The horrible East German "Ike" Jacket was a Sturm product. Sturm was not afraid to alter East German clothing that was for export, if they thought it would help their sales.


NOTE: Even though the issue surrounding the patch that was on the Tunic SCHUPO brought to question on this thread has been resolved, I would very much be interested in members willing to follow up and accomplish a little research on those unique and very clandestine Para-military units that existed in the NVA and Stasi. Perhaps they were qualified to, and did wear the Fallschirmjager patch on their respective Walking Out and Parade Tunics? Anyone up to the challenge? Or better yet, anyone already in possession of information on this subject, that they would like to share with the Forum?

Paul, I know you've done some research in this area and have uncovered a lot of interesting things about these type units. Do you by chance know if any of these particular type units wore the Fallschirmjager specialty patch on their Non-Fallschirmjager branch of service Tunic?

[paul heath]

Mike et al,


Thanks, and I would like to add what I know/understand on this topic.

As far as I know no other unit of the NVA wore the fallis speciality patch outside of the fallis. But, that does not mean no other unit wore the jump badge. The SAK ( the NVA's super secret deep recon teams) wore the jump badge on their standard Mot tunic. This was according to a member in the late 80s. He told me that was the only way to tell they were elite recon. For a detailed discussion on this topic go to the gunboards forum and type in the keyword "SAK".

Aside: the SAK wore the standard falli kit in the field minus the beret and sometimes the jump boots. A possible pic of them appears in the 80s version of "Soldaten Des Volkes".

I do not think it would be improbable to add a jump badge to an earlier Mot tunic that has a recon patch on it if you wanted create/repro an earlier SAK tunic. I also think it may be ok to add a jump badge to an early or late Mot tunic w/o the specialist patch since that was the way they went out when the NVA checked out. I know that not all recon units were jump qualified. But, I think it would be acceptable to add the jump badge on that one type of non falli tunic - for the SAK. IMHO that is one very narrow exception b/c it is my understanding that in the NVA there was very little cross training like in US/NATO.

The Volksmarine had a US navy seal type unit ( the Kampfschwimmerkommando or "KsK") that was jump qualified. I know of no naval tunic w/ falli speciality patch. But could it be acceptable to add a jump badge on a navy tunic to represent that seal/KSK unit? I have no evidence of any photos of this unit with the jump badge. They have a web site. See gunboards again. See also "von Himmel..." for some scant info and a photo of their shield.

Question to members: In relation to cross training.
(1) Was it possible for someone to be in the fallis and transfer out to a regular unit (say due to age or injury)?

(2) Would that soldat be allowed to wear his jump badge ( just like in the US army where soldiers get to wear all of their achievement patches)?

Two cents thrown in and as always if the collecting tank can add on or refute, pile the info on deep and high .

Paul Heath

[Mike G.]

Thanks Paul.

The info is much appreciated, and your questions are of course, very good ones. Perhaps one of the former NVA members can assist or help with your questions?

[Mike G.]

Well,

I found some down time and was able to accomplish a more indepth research relevant to the question of the patch that is on the Infantry Dark Collar Tunic. I found the information in the Band II Uniformeffekten Catalog authored by Klaus Walther.

There are two overt reasons this patch is definitely wrong on this Tunic:

a). The Tunic is that of a conscript. The patch is for an officer or warrant officer.

b). The Tunic is Infantry. The patch is of the type issued to, and worn by the Air Force.

Regarding b). Presumably, this would be Flight Crewman assigned to fixed wing and rotor aircraft used by the Fallschirmjager.

Regardless, the patch is definitely incorrect on the uniform on which it appears.

Regarding any specialized Para-military units such as the SAK, one would expect, if authorized a Fallschirmjager Patch, it would be of the type that pertained to being jump qualified. This type patch would have a small wing beneath the parachute.

[SCHUPO]

Gents,

Thanks for the information on the Falli patch. It seems that the WA or Officer patch is improper, regulation-wise, for an enlisted Mot Schutzen Infantry tunic after all. I will probably remove it as it is hand stitched onto the sleeve.

George

[Mike G.]

You still have yourself a very nice Dark Collar Tunic.

[SCHUPO]

Michael,

Thanks for your help and the expertise of everyone who commented. I am perfectly happy with the tunic as a standard Mot Schutzen Jacke as opposed to it belonging to a Fallschrimjäger qualified fellow. I am removing the specialty patch today in order to bring it back to regulation condition.

George

[delta576]

east german para badge

1.)

This is a bagde for Officers of the "Fallschirmdienst" (only east german Airforce). The badge for NCO´s is similar (only the parachute, without the ring). It´s not a "Jump Badge"!!!!!

- The "Fallschirmdienst" was responsible for the maintenance of the Chute (Parachutes & Break Chute (jets)), rescue techniques (ejection seats) and for the jump training of pilots. They were not Flight Crewman!!!!!

Officers and NCO´s of the "Fallschirmdienst" were even Parachutists but not members of the Airborne Troops.

2.)

This is the "east german para badge". It was awarded after a successful jump training.
Who was trained?
- paratroopers, long-range reconnaissance (FAK), special reconnaissance (SAK), all pilots and Crew members (plane and helicopter), Fallschirmdienst (Airforce), combat swimmers, special troops of the MfS

Greeting Delta576

P.S......sorry, but my english is not so good

[ehrentitle]

It sounds like "Fallschirmdienst" is the equivelent of Parachute Rigger in the US Army. Parachute riggers are responsible for the packing of individual and cargo parachutes as well as their maintenance and repair.

[delta576]

It sounds like "Fallschirmdienst" is the equivelent of Parachute Rigger in the US Army. Parachute riggers are responsible for the packing of individual and cargo parachutes as well as their maintenance and repair.

Yes, i thing so.

But i must correct a statement. "Fallschirmdienst" was a part of every unit, what had the Parachutes. Not only the east german Airforce. But only die NCO´s and Officers of the Airforce-Fallschirmdienst wore the badge these badge (1965-1986)!!!!

[delta576]

Service Career Badge of the Paratrooper

From 1964 to 1969, the east german paratrooper wore the own Service career Badge (Dienstlaufbahnabzeichen).



1970, the paratroopers got the a new jacket. The collar now had the same color as the rest of the jacket and he was worn openly. The Service career Badge on the Sleeves now accounted and the new orange collar tab became the symbol of the east german paratrooper.



Greeting delta576

[Ralph P]

Delta 576 - Thanks for reviving this thread and providing some useful data about former East German riggers for the DDR Forum.

Not sure if I asked this, but what are your collecting interests or background?

Thanks again for the data...

[delta576]

Not sure if I asked this, but what are your collecting interests or background?

.....I infrequent collect items of the East German parachute troops.......but I am still on beginning.