Cold War in Europe trivia thread...

[torstenbel]

Sorry for delay. OK, here we go!
What is the significance of 17-5001?
What, Where, Who, and Why

and this is the entrance door to 17-5001... but I will leave it to others to find the full answer for it...Cheers, Torsten.

[Soviet]

This is the so called "Honecker-Bunker", where the whole Nationale Verteidigungsrat (National defence council) would have take refuge in case of war. The leaders of the party and the government of the German Democratic Republic would have been "safe" out there.

http://www.bunker-anlagen.de/5001.html

This is located in Prenden and the Bunker was build fron 1978 to 1983.

The Bunker did cost 230 Millionen DDR-Mark to the East-German people.



http://www.bunker-prenden.de/

I have found out that the Bunker is close forever.

http://morgenpost.berlin1.de/content...rg/754967.html

http://forum.hidden-places.de/viewto...fec4afd282390f

[Bob Schiavinato]

Good job, Soviet! And excellent links, too!

I stumbled on this British site several years ago (http://www.bunkertours.co.uk). For English speaking forum members I think you would find it very informative and interesting. These guys are kind of like spelunkers only instead of exploring caves they explore bunkers. Of course, being British there is loads of dry wit and humor (or humour as our British cousins would spell it.) They were able to get into 5001 before it was permanently closed to the public. The writer described the design as a "system" in which there was a bunker hung by a huge hydrallic spring system within the bunker, thus protecting against blast shock and increasing structural integrity and, therefore, survivability. The "5000 series" designs were supposed to be the state of the art in bunker building and a model for the WP, but were so expensive they couldn't be duplicated by the other WP states.

Soviet, it's all yours buddy!

[Mike G.]

Thanks to the both of you for sharing this informative post along with the multitude of links explaining and expounding on the Bunker System.

Great thread so far.

[Soviet]

Ok I will ask an easy question because I don't have that much time in front of me. I'm going on a trip to New York tomorrow night, so if I haven't answered just go on when someone has answered everything good.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is about the Palast der Rebublik.

1. In which year was build the Palast der Republik ?
2. What was on the site before the Palast ?
3. Why the Palast der Rebublik has been closed for the visitors ?
4. What is planned in the next years to do with the building and it surroundings ?

[Bob Schiavinato]

Aw, dude...way too easy, but I understand you are pressed for time.

1. Groundbreaking 2 November 1973 completed and opened to the public April 25, 1975.
2. Site of the former Berlinerstadtschloss home of the Kaisers.
3. Closed because asbestos was used extensively in the construction of the building.
4. My understanding is the asbestos was removed, but the Bundestag voted to begin demolition of the building in 2005 to be completed in 2006 and to rebuild the old Berliner Schloss. It was opened and used as an exhibit hall. I read that the Terracotta Army (PRC) was exhibited there. I personally think that demolishing the building is a mistake, as the PdR is one of the largest multi-use complexes in the world. While the EU 400M is being sought, the plan is, or was, to leave the site a green space until construction can begin on rebuilding the old palace.

[torstenbel]

I knew they were going to demolish it, but I did not know that they were going to rebuild the Stadtschloss...how stupid is that???... The Palast der Republik would have been perfect for a DDR museum...there would have been lots of Tourist interest for it and after all, it was 40 years of our life and history and they can't just ignore it and pretend it never happened.... Cheers, Torsten.

[Soviet]

Thank you Bob for answering these easy questions.

Up to you to find an other question.

Palast der Republik ... RIP

[Bob Schiavinato]

Thanks Soviet. Have a good trip to New York. Torsten, I agree. It's absurd. Afterall, the Schloss was destroyed in the bombing and assault on Berlin. They didn't even rebuild the old Philharmonie after the war. The Berlin Philharmonic played in the Titania Palast for years and then at the Hochschule until construction of the new Philharmonie on a new site near Potsdamer Platz in 1961. I don't get it. To me if you want to demolish something, demolish the Stasi Main building and leave the Palast der Republik alone. What's next Alexanderplatz? Der Rote Rathaus?? Berliner Dom??? (Yeah, I know I'm getting stupid.)


Back to the thread, I have been reading with interest Ralph's article on cold war military strategy. I would like to have Ralph or Mike G. take my turn and ask a question from the military standpoint to see how much all sides understood about each other's military tactics and training and the influence of USSR and USA tactical training and strategic planning on the NVA and the Bundeswehr. Does that make any sense? Would that be acceptable, at least for this turn? Thanks!

[Mike G.]

Hi Bob,

Actually, what you are asking of Ralph and myself I believe is not possible. This is due to the fact as I've learned from many dialogues I've had with Dag, even though the East German Army was equipped with Soviet land vehicles and aircraft (Tanks and Migs, etc.), and their "TO and E" was similar if not exact, the NVA actually trained differently and to much higher standards than did their Soviet counterpart. Additionally, their actual mission as we now are aware, was much different than what the Allied Command in Europe had envisioned, trained and planned for.

So I will pass. Ralph, if you would care to have a go at it, please be my guest. Or perhaps better still, maybe Dag would like to take this one.

[Ralph P]

Hey Bob...very informative trivia question and answer for the last round, thanks for posting. But you caught my attention on something in your post in reference to the 5000 series being so expensive that the other WP could not duplicate them.

Let me ask this question. Was this bunker considered the most sophisticated during the Cold War only within East Germany or within the WTVD?

The reason I am asking this question I believe the bunker in South Western Poland was the most sophisticated bunker during the Cold War. This bunker was specifically designed to have all the senior Soviet staff and Warsaw Pact senior officers in place that would have involved the movement of Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces during the openning stages of the next war in Europe. During the Cold War the bunker was kept classified and was only known by the Soviets and a very limited members of the Polish government.
I will be very interested to read your response or what any other forum member says.

Good job, Soviet! And excellent links, too!

I stumbled on this British site several years ago (http://www.bunkertours.co.uk). For English speaking forum members I think you would find it very informative and interesting. These guys are kind of like spelunkers only instead of exploring caves they explore bunkers. Of course, being British there is loads of dry wit and humor (or humour as our British cousins would spell it.) They were able to get into 5001 before it was permanently closed to the public. The writer described the design as a "system" in which there was a bunker hung by a huge hydrallic spring system within the bunker, thus protecting against blast shock and increasing structural integrity and, therefore, survivability. The "5000 series" designs were supposed to be the state of the art in bunker building and a model for the WP, but were so expensive they couldn't be duplicated by the other WP states.

Soviet, it's all yours buddy!

[Ralph P]

Hey Bob...thanks for the comments and interests about my article. I believe you are asking a very good question. But, I believe it would for sure be more suited in my article thread. It would spur some I think interesting discussion.

After reading your question I did some thinking and I believe something could be said or talked about from each other's tactics and training, but it could not be done within this trivia thread. The reason I say that; it may derail the thread in the wrong direction and we as a forum should not let that happen.

So at this point I would not know how to ask a trivia question in such a way to make it clear, understandable and something the other forum members could search on. Over 90 percent of my professional reference materials (books, pamphlets and papers) are from the Cold War and have not been on the internet.

I think your question should be asked on the other thread. AND I hope I have not talked to much...and wasted your time...

Back to the thread, I have been reading with interest Ralph's article on cold war military strategy. I would like to have Ralph or Mike G. take my turn and ask a question from the military standpoint to see how much all sides understood about each other's military tactics and training and the influence of USSR and USA tactical training and strategic planning on the NVA and the Bundeswehr. Does that make any sense? Would that be acceptable, at least for this turn? Thanks!

[Ralph P]

Hey Bob...
PS...my vote would be to keep the STASI building...

Thanks Soviet. Have a good trip to New York. Torsten, I agree. It's absurd. Afterall, the Schloss was destroyed in the bombing and assault on Berlin. They didn't even rebuild the old Philharmonie after the war. The Berlin Philharmonic played in the Titania Palast for years and then at the Hochschule until construction of the new Philharmonie on a new site near Potsdamer Platz in 1961. I don't get it. To me if you want to demolish something, demolish the Stasi Main building and leave the Palast der Republik alone. What's next Alexanderplatz? Der Rote Rathaus?? Berliner Dom??? (Yeah, I know I'm getting stupid.)



Back to the thread, I have been reading with interest Ralph's article on cold war military strategy. I would like to have Ralph or Mike G. take my turn and ask a question from the military standpoint to see how much all sides understood about each other's military tactics and training and the influence of USSR and USA tactical training and strategic planning on the NVA and the Bundeswehr. Does that make any sense? Would that be acceptable, at least for this turn? Thanks!

[Ralph P]

Hey Mike...very good post on what you said, but I would add that if we are talking about the overall allied command then I agree with you.

But, if about US forces in NATO. I would say that limited senior US commanders were aware of the true intentions of the East German military plans during the Cold War. BUT, your point is dead on that we now know the true intentions since the information came out at the end of the Cold War.

Hi Bob,

Actually, what you are asking of Ralph and myself I believe is not possible. This is due to the fact as I've learned from many dialogues I've had with Dag, even though the East German Army was equipped with Soviet land vehicles and aircraft (Tanks and Migs, etc.), and their "TO and E" was similar if not exact, the NVA actually trained differently and to much higher standards than did their Soviet counterpart. Additionally, their actual mission as we now are aware, was much different than what the Allied Command in Europe had envisioned, trained and planned for.

So I will pass. Ralph, if you would care to have a go at it, please be my guest. Or perhaps better still, maybe Dag would like to take this one.

[Bob Schiavinato]

Hi Ralph,

Sorry for the delay in replying. The basis for my statement came from something said in the bunkertours website. Those guys seemed pretty expert in their knowledge of the DDR bunkers. After thinkiing about it, I am going to do some reseach on line and "in the books" so I can express an opinion based on my own findings and not just on something I read on the internet. That way I can speak a little more knowledeably about the topic and something more than a guess or supposition. When I'm finished I'll post a thread and see what others can contribute. I ordered an few books form Germany and as soon as they arrive I'll get started, so it may be a few weeks before I post. I'll go to your other thread and ask some questions there. Thanks for your work on this forum. It's pretty cool.

Bob