Another pair of ribbon bars

[Kozlov]

Opinions on validity of these?

When I say that, I mean a genuine "career set"...

[NavyFCO]

I don't see anything wrong with them with regard to the medals represented. Otherwise, I believe they were recently made and never actually belonged to a veteran.

Dave

[Gerd Becker]

I don't see anything wrong with them with regard to the medals represented. Otherwise, I believe they were recently made and never actually belonged to a veteran.

Dave

Dave,

what do i have to look for when i want to check, if its real?

Thanks

Gerd

[NavyFCO]

Dave,

what do i have to look for when i want to check, if its real?

Thanks

Gerd

Gerd-

There's not much that I can tell you where there isn't exceptions to the rules, a lot of it is simply having seen so many of them since I started collecting Soviet stuff in 1991. With that said, there are a couple things that concern me about these groups. First, there are two being offered of IDENTICAL construction. Possible? Sure. Possible that they were made two months ago in the Ukraine? Sure! Second, the ribbons are mounted on black plastic bars. Not that real "worn" ones weren't worn on those plastic bars, but the vast majority of fake ones that I've seen have been on these bars - and I've seen very few real ones mounted like this.

Those are a couple of reasons I don't like these and am comfortable in calling them "modern creations".

Dave

[Kozlov]

Dave,

Thanks - I was just being lazy really, I know you've always spotted the bum ones I've had before and with that many I couldnt be bothered to look em all up because there are loads of stuff in their I don't recognise.

Being lazy again, is there anything in there which either is out of place for "cold war colonel wear" or places the individual as something in particular (KGB, police etc)

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks, Dave. I have an eye for Imperial ribbon bars (not allways) but i have absolutely no clue, what to look for on russian bars.

I will see, if i can find some pictures of definately real ones.

best,
Gerd

[Rick Research]

career "books" with "pages" missing

Here is a reference thread from my moderating days showing various types and fronts and backs of Soviet ribbon bars:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...et+Ribbon+Bars


I am always uneasy about the types on FELT backings. There were certainly many originals, but most sew-on ribbon bars seem to have been made on the same sort of UNIFORM material (the actual uniform woven cloth, usually doubled for thickness) rather than generic felt.

Neither of these two bars "reads" coherently as a career biography in ribbons.

The first bar is certainly a parts fraud--


that officer supposedly served from 1918 through 1958 at the least (1938, 1948, 1958 Jubilees all indicating continuous active duty) and yet when he must have received for this merest of long service TWO Orders of the Red Banner (one after "20" years, first awarded November 1944, and a "30" in 1948)...

there is only ONE. The Valiant Labor and Distinguished Labor Medals would also be quite incongruous in a military group of this seniority.

The second bar is also a parts fraud, I would say, from the absence (despite later Armed Forces Jubilees) of a 1985 Jubilee OPW1. I've never seen a retired General from WW2 without that grade of the jubilee "Order." The dangly little thing in last place 2nd row I don't THINK was given to officers at all, only enlisted men. There is also no "Veteran" ribbon on this one-- no way that Comrade was still on ACTIVE duty!

Additional problems on the second bar are the Friendship of Peoples (not casually handed out to ex-military, surely), the Order of Glory 3rd out of place in such a career, and the Public Order Medal. This man was NOT in the police (no 1967 jubilee) which might explain no police long service medal from 1958+ but NEITHER was he in the military-- despite being a Caucasus veteran, note that there is no military long service "10" MMM or "15" Red Star there. Remember: "1948" and "1958" required being on ACTIVE service and were not given to retirees. With that ACTIVE duty, LONG SERVICE had to be involved over those years before (WW2) to at least 1958. Either long service Orders/Medals (ORB2, OL, ORB, ORS, MMM) or the 1958 medal(s) for long service should appear.

October Revolutions also set my antennae twitching. Dave has seen zillions more of recent career groups, but I think we will agree that after the tidal wave of awards 1940s-50s, actual Orders dropped off quite precipitously in the late 1960s, and all the jubilee schlock took over as compensation. Postwar general groups-- the ones too young to have served in WW2-- are usually quite stunningly BORING.

I have the same problem trying to figure out the obscure FOREIGN Communist awards, and would not be able to remember what all those were as tipoffs that a 1975 Anniversary of Somethingorother would not be worn before a 1969 Wuzzit Jubilee.

[Kozlov]

Thanks Rick!

Its that kind of disecting (sp?) that helps me learn more on spotting the rubbish!

These two groups are on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6517019916

Read the description, then I asked a question:

You asked:
"Can you tell me what all these awards are?"

Sorry, I don't know them. You are the collector.

Well, caveat emptor and all that but i would suggest he does know - or at least the description suggests he does.

A real mis-sale case I feel!

Funnily enough, my question and his answer was not chosen to be made public.

[Rick Research]

It's not too late!

Saved you some money, then!

I have also seen a lot of the older individual tab-back single row ribbon bars STOCK turning up that are obvious dreck-- any-old (or new ) ribbons slapped on them and sold (same sorry state of affairs as with GERMAN ones) as if "size is all that matters."

But like a book, ANY real miltary ribbons rack is a career summary, a lifetime in woven colored rectangles. and the combination and mounting have to make SENSE and be consistent with the period they are supposed to be from.

Being poor, as well as picky, I find it financially safer to pass on dubious items than take risks--

because I want REAL, not "Hollywood."

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks for the info, Rick. Like allways, there is no question unanswered.

best,
Gerd

[dannybou]

Thanks Rick!

Its that kind of disecting (sp?) that helps me learn more on spotting the rubbish!

These two groups are on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6517019916

Read the description, then I asked a question:


Well, caveat emptor and all that but i would suggest he does know - or at least the description suggests he does.

A real mis-sale case I feel!

Funnily enough, my question and his answer was not chosen to be made public.

I have dealt with this seller before. Sold me some documents I had an authenticity issue with therefore I returned them. I now stay away.