Soviet medals vs. American medals

[Soviet]

I was wandering while browsing Internet why the Soviet medals are much more expensive than the American one.

As a Soviet and Cold war collector I was looking for the Commememorative Cold War Medal or the US Medal for Humane Action to the People of Berlin (the one for the Berlin Airlift) and I was surprise how cheap they are compare to the Soviet medals. Maybe that's because these medals were widely awarded, but while looking further I haven't very expensive US medals like the Soviet one.

I think both countries like the US and the USSR had so many medals awarded, but why are the US one lot cheaper than the Soviet one. Do you have any constructive idea about that.

Soviet

[Manu Dalton]

We collect Imperial german, nazi, japanese, communist bloc, Southern Us Civil War, Napoleon, etc. Have you ever notice that most millitria collectors collect the "loser" and the "loser" medal are always harder to find and most expensive?

I guess the awnser is simply : higher demand, higher price.

[olivyaya]

We collect Imperial german, nazi, japanese, communist bloc, Southern Us Civil War, Napoleon, etc. Have you ever notice that most millitria collectors collect the "loser" and the "loser" medal are always harder to find and most expensive?

I guess the awnser is simply : higher demand, higher price.

I partly agree with you.... they collect those who happen to be the losers in the end... but what is psychologically interesting is not that they lost, but the fact that they 1st were the strongest and also the worst that Earth ever bore (cf: Nazi camps ; Japanese atrocities in continental Asian occupied territories ; Soviet goulags, trials and iron curtain ... they all committed crimes agains civil populations.... the only exception being Imperial Germany since the war was a "classical war" if you leave aside the use of combat gaz)...

I have always wondered up to what point this had a psychological unconscious effect on collectors... some sort of Stockholm syndrome... you try to get as close to the criminals as possible in order 1st to feel unconsciously safer... and 2nd try to understand what is undertsandable in terms of "humaneness"...

I am not writing those words to make a judgement... I am one among you all in this forum... I am just sharing my thoughts ... maybe a psychiatrist could tell us more on the subject...

[desantnik]

Your psychological reasons all have some validity. I will propose some more mundane ones.

1. Soviet medals and orders are often made of precious medals.
2. Soviet awards usually have serial numbers than can be researched.
3. Soviet awards are as a whole, aesthetically more pleasing than American awards.
4. Soviet awards were the forbidden fruit that were untouchable until 1992 and have the WWII as well as Cold War appeal.

Incidentally, there is no official US Cold War medal, the Department of Defense only printed certificates for those who applied for them and could prove their service during the Cold War.

[olivyaya]

Your psychological reasons all have some validity. I will propose some more mundane ones.

1. Soviet medals and orders are often made of precious medals.
2. Soviet awards usually have serial numbers than can be researched.
3. Soviet awards are as a whole, aesthetically more pleasing than American awards.
4. Soviet awards were the forbidden fruit that were untouchable until 1992 and have the WWII as well as Cold War appeal.

Incidentally, there is no official US Cold War medal, the Department of Defense only printed certificates for those who applied for them and could prove their service during the Cold War.

You are absolutely right .... in fact I was not limiting my comments to medal collecting... but militaria collecting in general !

[dannybou]

Your psychological reasons all have some validity. I will propose some more mundane ones.

1. Soviet medals and orders are often made of precious medals.
2. Soviet awards usually have serial numbers than can be researched.
3. Soviet awards are as a whole, aesthetically more pleasing than American awards.
4. Soviet awards were the forbidden fruit that were untouchable until 1992 and have the WWII as well as Cold War appeal.

Incidentally, there is no official US Cold War medal, the Department of Defense only printed certificates for those who applied for them and could prove their service during the Cold War.

These are the exact reasons why I am collecting Soviet awards.

[NavyFCO]

I too concur with desantnik. As a former US medals collector (and I still have some) there are two other reasons why I collect Soviet awards over their US counterparts. First, it is possible to buy multiple examples of the same award. In fact, when getting your medals mounted, it is often cheaper just to buy new medals than to remount your old ones! For my own medals, I have two (even three) of the same medal from different mounts, sometimes I was issued an award twice by the command, etc. When a Soviet award was awarded - there was just one, and it was numbered. So, you know that THAT exact award was the one that was worn, not one of three or four the veteran owned.

Second, along the same vein as the first, since the awards are available commercially and most were issued without serial numbers or names engraved, what's to stop another collector from "adding" awards (perhaps legitimately to complete a group with missing medals) or even just making up a group alltogether to match a set of documents? Since there's no way to trace the awards, there's no 100% way of knowing that the group you own is the exact group of awards owned by that veteran, unless you buy them from the vet himself/herself. Even with that, I've seen enough veterans with restrikes, modern "replacement" medals, etc., in their own groups to know that even buying them from the vet is still not a 100% guarantee.

--Dave

[Manu Dalton]

I partly agree with you.... they collect those who happen to be the losers in the end... but what is psychologically interesting is not that they lost, but the fact that they 1st were the strongest and also the worst that Earth ever bore (cf: Nazi camps ; Japanese atrocities in continental Asian occupied territories ; Soviet goulags, trials and iron curtain ... they all committed crimes agains civil populations.... the only exception being Imperial Germany since the war was a "classical war" if you leave aside the use of combat gaz)...

I have always wondered up to what point this had a psychological unconscious effect on collectors... some sort of Stockholm syndrome... you try to get as close to the criminals as possible in order 1st to feel unconsciously safer... and 2nd try to understand what is undertsandable in terms of "humaneness"...

I am not writing those words to make a judgement... I am one among you all in this forum... I am just sharing my thoughts ... maybe a psychiatrist could tell us more on the subject...

I agree with that, all of us have a "fascination" for those political regime and what they have done. Maybe collecting is a safe way to explore the darkness, the evil part of our soul....

[olivyaya]

I agree with that, all of us have a "fascination" for those political regime and what they have done. Maybe collecting is a safe way to explore the darkness, the evil part of our soul....

Manu, "explore the darkness, the evil part of our soul" are the right words !!

[Ralph A]

UK stuff brings a high price I hear.

No bloody losers there. * ** snif * * old boy...

Collecting Soviet? Nazi? Reb? "Scales of the dragon" and all that, chaps. Some collect the teeth, others the claws...

[J Howland]

There really is no way to tell if the soviet WW II campaign medals that come with a "group" are actually the ones given to the soldier. Made of brass (in most cases), the best you can do is content yourself with the fact if that they are 1940's manufacture, they are probably the ones that the soldier in question actually earned - unless of course they show the tell-tale signs of being later official restrikes made for veterans by one or the other of the two main mints.

The "traceability" of the serial numbers on soviet orders and bravery medals is reassuring, even more so if an orders book accompanies the set. Blank order books, however, have been freely accessable to Russian dealers and collectors for over a decade - and some dealers have not been reluctant to take an issued (and dog-eared) orders book with only one entry and add the numbers of loose orders that they've come across, making a most impressive "documented" group...

A properly researched Soviet group does offer a sense of contentment that rarely comes from similar American groups - a sensation that collectors of named British groups have enjoyed for over a hundred years.

Jim

[ZachHarden]

I was wandering while browsing Internet why the Soviet medals are much more expensive than the American one.

As a Soviet and Cold war collector I was looking for the Commememorative Cold War Medal or the US Medal for Humane Action to the People of Berlin (the one for the Berlin Airlift) and I was surprise how cheap they are compare to the Soviet medals. Maybe that's because these medals were widely awarded, but while looking further I haven't very expensive US medals like the Soviet one.

I think both countries like the US and the USSR had so many medals awarded, but why are the US one lot cheaper than the Soviet one. Do you have any constructive idea about that.

Soviet

I personally think that US medals are still reproduced today, since they can be used for display cases or shadow boxes. Veterans might want them, movies might need them for production.

Zach Harden

[J Howland]

We probably should define our terms: both the US government and the Russian government (OK, Soviet for 45, Russian for 15) have been in continuous operation ever since 1945 and have continuously manufactured medals first issued during and immediately after World War II. The term "reproduced" doesn't really apply here - there are primarily just versions caused by changes in production techniques over the decades.

For most if not all of the twentieth century, the US Federal government freely issued medals and decorations to surviving family members or directly to vets who applied for either replacements or for medals never received in the first place. A retired US navy captain friend of mine (who'd served in China in the 1930'sas a young man) applied for replacement medals in the late seventies. Due to a bureaucratic oversight, Uncle Sam sent him two sets: the medals in the first all had the typically "plastic" finish typical of 70's cheapo manufacture but the second set actually included an original 1930's, serially numbered Yangzte Service medal. Go figure...

Jim

[coastie]

"I personally think that US medals are still reproduced today, since they can be used for display cases or shadow boxes. Veterans might want them, movies might need them for production."

They are and the quality isn't that good, Rayon ribbons, poor strikings and poor finish.

But there are good examples out there and don't think that some of them are cheap.The following Boxed slot brooched Navy Crosses, Army DSM's, Legion of Merits, Navy DSM's and some others will command high prices, They are un-common, won't say rare, I think in some Depot somewhere there are bunches of them laying around waiting to be sold off as surplus, case in point: Right now there are bunches of Bronze Stars on e-bay that were made by SWANK going for as low as 12.00 these I think are the nicest examples of the BS out there, will they ever go up in value? don't think so.

Provenance for American Medals is very hard the paperwork is usually lost and groups get broken up.

Campaign medals before 1939 is a very specialized market when you are dealing with numbered pieces and the type of brooch involved, they get very expensive. Exception is the WWI Victory Medal, Occupation medal, China service can be had for reasonable prices.

At first I wanted to get a display of all US medals going for showing at my school and such. Now that I got them I look at them and say to myself this is not good enough. Now I'm concentrating on obtaining the earliest strike I can afford. This is any medal made before 1970 after that most of the medals the quality suffers. I look for ones in the box/case with the Maker/contract label on the end. I look for slot brooched medals, A frosted finish on campaign/sevice medals which has a caramel colored finish to them. Medals authorized after 1970 will have a different finish to them and you can't get any better . Be cautious of the "Studley" restrikes they are interesting but not up to the same quality as originals these were made in the 60's I believe I'm still researching them I have several and will post them later as a lesson.

Remember that WWII US campaign medals were issued in the Millions after the war and most of them are in very nice condition and can be had for less than 20.00, there are some differences involving apuretances such as stars, numbers and such which makes them a bit more desirable but it helps if you have paperwork to them because they can be added later.

Back in the sixties I got a replacement set of medals for my dad from the Government and on the box they still had the contract date from the 40's I don't know when these finally ran out, but there are a lot of them out there.

I like Soviet medals I have a nice collection of them, but the problem with Soviet medals is there are fakes out there. US medals is a different story, Medals are made by Government contractors and they are producing copies or "re-strikes" of early US US medals, this includes Certificate of Merit, Marine Corp Brevet medals and all. There are fakes out there but these are the high end rare medals, Dewey, Sampson, Navy Good Conduct first type, NC4, Bryd/Scott Arctic medals, Typhus commission medals. These can be nice fillers but these are so rare as to be un-obtainable and in a category of their own. Can you argue that is a medal is currently produced by a government contractor be considered original? You can, but not ORIGINAL this is where you have to know what to look for. Be very cautious of these early series with numbers and names unless you have hard core evidence don't pay a long for them.

After all of that rambling, bottom line is I do like US medals they are little bits of history in bronze and silk. When you get something like a Haitian campaign medal from 1919 you begin to see that we have been involved in the affairs of our southern neighbors for a long time.

[J Howland]

Generic thoughts/comments:

1. I believe Studley was a man who travelled the US in the twenties and thirties selling copies of US campaign medals to vets. I think that they were made from his own dies - but I could be wrong about that. I remember meeting a collector in the 1970's who had bags of hundreds and hundreds of Studley bronze planchets - all w/o ribbons or rings...

2. If a medal has been manufactured under a legitimate US government contract, then it must be regarded as official - but not a reproduction. Until recent years, I believe that Uncle Sam provided its own dies for the fulfillment of an order for medals. The government got sloppy somewhere along the line fifteen or twenty years ago and stopped reclaiming the dies after an order was finished - this is how one company (now defunct) became the premier backdoor provider of US medals to the collector market...

3. As recently as the 1960's, the US Navy yard in Philadelphia had thousands of circa 1945 Purple Hearts in leatherette cases that had been made for US servicemen to claim as they left the military. Unfortunately, most soldiers/sailors/marines in '45 simply wanted to go back to wearing civvies as quickly as possible and never bothered to collect them. Most, if not all, of the cased decorations were marked for destruction in '73 or '74...

Jim