The internal Pocket M35 Gym.

[Wesley's Dad]

Here is a question for the forum… What is your opinion on M35 Gymnastiorka with internal breast pockets, that is only pocket flaps visible on the outside (see photo)? In all the time I have been collecting Red Army material, I have seen quite a few offered for sale. Here is the problem; I have never seen a published period photograph showing one being worn. Likewise, an associate and I have accumulated a large number of unpublished period photos for a future endeavor and while we have managed to locate photos of some amazing things, we have yet to find a photo showing an internal pocket M35 shirt.
<O
Oddly, none appear in either of Shalito’s books on Red Army uniforms. Alas, one is show in the Webster/Nelson book on page 119, but the close-up photo of the collar makes be dubious as to its originality

What I keep running into are 1950’s and 60’s vintage shirts that have been done up to appear as M35 uniform articles. There is a shirt that was produced per and order issued <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Month="1" Day="29" Year="1958">January 29, 1958</st1:date> that was worn by military construction and logistical personnel of that era. The attached photo shows these shirts being worn by the father of a friend and one of his comrades in service. I have handled quite a few of these shirts. I almost totally convinced that every M35 I have handled that had internal breast pockets was one of these with wartime buttons sewn on and either original or reproduction M35 collar tabs. Based on the fabric and the unusual "look" to the piping, I even have strong suspicions that the shirt shown on p119 of Webster/Nelson is a 1958 fatigue shirt that has been “almost skillfully” piped after the fact. <O></O>

Thanks,
Mike

[Wesley's Dad]

Oddly, none appear in either of Shalito’s books on Red Army uniforms. Alas, one is show in the Webster/Nelson book on page 119, but the close-up photo of the collar makes be dubious as to its originality [/font]

Ok, there is one in Shalito's first boon on page 43 . Though my question and doubt remain...

Mike

[LeeG]

Hey Mike,
The thing to look for on the fakes then, is to see if there used to be some sort of shoulder board fastener, correct?
The tabs on the M35 in Webster and Nelson do look like they were added on in a hurry, but perhaps that might have been done in the field.
-Lee

[LeeG]

Looking at your 1950's photo, the cut of the collar is much sharper than the pullover shown in Webster/Nelson.

[Rick Research]

I know this one is crappy, but I'm going through my piles. I don't see patches on these except maybe the guy front right with rifle over his knee. It is dated "1941" on the original, which is a mistake-- must be 1942

[Rick Research]

Hmmm. Tony Shaloub, late 1940s: got patches.

[Rick Research]

Nope, all my others have patch pockets. And magnifying the heck out of that group shot, they all DO have patch pockets. Nevvvvver mind.

[Wesley's Dad]

Looking at your 1950's photo, the cut of the collar is much sharper than the pullover shown in Webster/Nelson.

Lee,

Yes, you are correct. I suspect however that the shirt in the W/N book has been disassembled and piped. At the same time the collar has been modified possibly. My doubt in this tunic stems from the highly unorthadox look to the collar piping and the fact that the material this shirt is made from looks(in the photos at least) like that of every 58 reg fatigue shirt I have ever had my hands on.

Mike

[Wesley's Dad]

Nope, all my others have patch pockets. And magnifying the heck out of that group shot, they all DO have patch pockets. Nevvvvver mind.

Thanks for the look see, Rick... Looks like you are seeing the same thing I am. We have looked at many many photos and still all show patches.

Regards,
Mike

[Sturmpnr]

Here is another photo of a postwar one, albeit, not a good photo but one with a smaller collar. I have spoken to many of my fellow Red Army collectors in Russia and around the world about these and they all agree that they are postwar. The Red Army's uniforms went through various changes and variations but the tunic always had patch pockets and it wasnt until the M43 that they had the internal pockets on the chest. On collar size, I have seen original M35 Gymnos with all ranges of collar sizes, from small to Saturday Night Fever Leisure Suit Large... and that is from original photos...

[DougD]

W/n

Well, this is a bit out of my area of specialization ( i.e. i tend to stick with the higher end guys as you know) but I have also sold and traded well over 500 Soviet wartime uniforms. All the M1935/40 uniforms I have had in that were legit were with external breast pockets; I have sold M1943 versions with the internal pockets, but these tended to be 1950's era.

As for W/N book, I do not doubt there is some error in it; the Marshals M1945 uniform for example is a repro, 100%, while there are some major problems with some of the other higher end uniforms too. Even one of my uniforms in the book, the Chief Marshal of Enginners, is wrong ( the boards are repro; tunic is fine). Anyway, with the number of errors in the higher end uniforms, i would not doubt there were some major problems with the regular red army uniforms.

DougD