Some impressions of complete uniforms

[michelwijnand]

Thanks, the way I thought about this, I'd rather spend some time fixing mistakes, than have people look at them and think I'm part of said group nr.2. I'd like things to be basically perfect if they can be.
And the reason why I get the gear with the uniforms, is because I like to get the complete picture, not just uniforms or gear, but the complete loadout as it would have looked in use.
I once started out as a helmet collector though, I had enoug helmets to put on quite a number of my early loadout collection haha.

You might add a 4th group to that, as I know some guys that collect any random thing in certain camo patterns, from uniforms and vests, to scope pouches and belts.
But yes, uniform collectors seem the most present.
I haven't heard the word survey collector before though, and I'm not sure what it means, could you explain? My English sometimes falls short a bit.

I'll be fixing some more stuff as time goes by though, some sets just need an extra item like a bayonet, but I have a Swedish 60's kit that need another jacket and helmet cover for it to look right, and some other early postwar Soviet stuff that needs looking at.

And also a quite wrong BGS one that could use some better gear too, to join the BGS club again

Cheers,
Michel

[Klaus1989]

And I learned something new in this thread... Klaus is not just a BGS collector

Steve

haha I collect some WW2 too. I tried to avoid other Cold War subjects, but find myself drift toward them anyway...

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks, the way I thought about this, I'd rather spend some time fixing mistakes, than have people look at them and think I'm part of said group nr.2. I'd like things to be basically perfect if they can be.
And the reason why I get the gear with the uniforms, is because I like to get the complete picture, not just uniforms or gear, but the complete loadout as it would have looked in use.

And that is what makes you part of a small sub-group of collectors. I am primarily a camouflage uniform collector and I don't think there are many I know that care one bit about small bits of kit even if they are in camouflage.

You might add a 4th group to that, as I know some guys that collect any random thing in certain camo patterns, from uniforms and vests, to scope pouches and belts.

Yup! There are all kinds of specialized collectors out there. You started out as one... helmet collector

But yes, uniform collectors seem the most present.
I haven't heard the word survey collector before though, and I'm not sure what it means, could you explain? My English sometimes falls short a bit

I do not know how common the term is, but in camouflage collecting we use it to distinguish between two types of collectors. One type is more specialized ("I only collect Bundeswehr" or "I only collect Warsaw Pact"), the other is more interested in collecting samples of a much broader range of examples ("I collect almost any camouflage uniform" or "I collect almost any combat hat"). The difference applies to anything that is collectible, I think.

One of the many English definitions of "survey" is this:

a general view, examination, or description of someone or something

Well, that is at least one guy's chosen way to describe this type of collecting. I am sure there are many other terms for it that are equally good

Steve

[Klaus1989]

And also a quite wrong BGS one that could use some better gear too, to join the BGS club again

if you need any help with your BGS impression, I am probably the one to ask here.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

if you need any help with your BGS impression, I am probably the one to ask here.

Regards
Klaus

Indeed you are

Steve

[michelwijnand]

Steve, thanks for the explanation, it makes more sense to me now, learned something again!

And Klaus, thanks for the offer, I'll remind myself to ask you when I need t know something
My old set is basically a later Sumpftarn standard parka and shirt, with BePo helmet, G1/3 pouches, slightly wrong 2-prong belt type, WW2 shovel, coconut canteen and repro pants.
I do have 2 different BGS helmets now, and was bidding on a folding shovel with the correct black leather carrier, but was outbidded. I'm reeeaally slowly improving this bit by bit. I also still have to get some helmet-rivets to fix the liner in my very early type helmet, with the US style liner.


And to continue the photo posting spree, here's some more as this uniform just arrived.
Again, too small for me, but the mannequin will do.

Russian VV MVD recon, circa 2008-09

Classcom KML Flora uniform with mask, hood and beret (don't mind the flexfit thing inside the berey, it's something I stuffed into the beret so it keeps it's shape better, hanging on this spike)
SSO Yeger chestrig (08-09 green color)
SSO RS-31 belt
SSO Edelweiss 2003-04 backpack (sometimes people call it Ataka-3, no idea why)




Reference pic, he seems to be wearing some AK Smersh magazine pouches on the waistbelt of the backpack, but I still had this chestrig laying around since forever.



Cheers,
Michel

[Klaus1989]

And Klaus, thanks for the offer, I'll remind myself to ask you when I need t know something
My old set is basically a later Sumpftarn standard parka and shirt, with BePo helmet, G1/3 pouches, slightly wrong 2-prong belt type, WW2 shovel, coconut canteen and repro pants.
I do have 2 different BGS helmets now, and was bidding on a folding shovel with the correct black leather carrier, but was outbidded. I'm reeeaally slowly improving this bit by bit. I also still have to get some helmet-rivets to fix the liner in my very early type helmet, with the US style liner.

It depend on the timeframe you want to portray. I collect mostly early stuff, and have several complete 1950s setups, but 1960s/early 70s is easier and more available (early/mid 50s took me almost 5 yrs to complete). The early helmet liners with rivets were only used ca. 1951-53/54 before they most adapted for the I53 liners (which why first pattern liners so rare now), so only can use with very early uniforms like the short jackets. Recently I acquired one myself finally.

Regards
Klaus

[michelwijnand]

Yes 60's/70's is what I'm making, I also have a standard rivetless helmet, but just mentioned the other since it's another thing I still need to fix. I luckily picked it up on ebay.de for 4,51. Other people probably thought it was some sort of repro WW2 one.

Cheers,
Michel

[Klaus1989]

Yes 60's/70's is what I'm making, I also have a standard rivetless helmet, but just mentioned the other since it's another thing I still need to fix. I luckily picked it up on ebay.de for 4,51. Other people probably thought it was some sort of repro WW2 one.

Cheers,
Michel

that will make things easier.

good deal for the helmet! Would be lucky to find even ok repro WW2 that cheap! Paid much more for mine...

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

I don't think I've seen the KLMK type uniform in Flora. Then again I do not pay as much attention to Russian uniforms as others. It's a deep topic that makes my head spin Is this uniform very difficult to find?

As for BGS stuff, Klaus is right that the late 1960s/70s is the easiest period to portray. First, older kit is often acceptable because they weren't fussy about things like an older mess tin or canteen being used since the design had not changed. So if you find a 1964 canteen it's fine to use it with a 1972 uniform. Klaus will correct me if I'm wrong

From a uniform standpoint the most difficult thing to find is the trousers. There are a couple of different types:

1. Blue-gray 100% cotton made from roughly 1962-1967. This replaced the Sumpftarn trousers (1958-1960) and is a near identical copy.

2. Blue-green 100% wool trousers made in the late 1960s to early 1970s. Similar to #1 design (billowed pockets, flaps for hand pockets, etc.), but lots of differences.

3. Blue-green Cotton (or is it cotton/poly?) version of #2. These seem to be quite hard to find. I purchase my first one last year. Not sure of the date ranges, but I'd guess it is similar to #2. Sorry, I don't have it handy to double check.

All three of these are quite hard to find. #1 is often confused with more common (but still hard to find) Polizei copies. #2 was very difficult to find, but last year a number hit the market. #3 appears to be the hardest to find of the three.

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

Having just posted the above information it occurred to me that it is a little off topic for this sub forum. Maybe when you get thinking about a BGS uniform you can head over to the BRD sub forum and we'll dig into it? It's always fun to try and get someone else to spend a lot of time and money looking for rare things

Steve

[Klaus1989]

hate to highjack this thread, but to Steve's response: the dates only refer to only dates manufactured, not issued. Dates in uniforms are not reliable way to determine to date, when particular uniforms were worn. Sumpftarn trousers were issued long after production stopped, at least as late as 1968. Generally, 1st Model Sumpftarn jacket with Sumpftarn trousers, 2nd Model (with arm pocket and no hood) with bluegreen trousers. The switch is around 1967/68. I have not seen bluegreen Einsatzanzug dated earlier than 1963, so not sure about 1962 date, unless one exist with such stamp.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Klaus is totally correct. Although I think there was more attention paid to issuing/wearing "current" uniforms compared to equipment, Klaus is correct that just because something is old doesn't mean it wasn't worn much later. Collectors are generally a lot more fussy about these things than the services were

Michel, you should definitely head over to the BRD forum when you are ready to concentrate on a BGS uniform. Obviously you'll get help there!

Steve

P.S. Klaus, I do believe you are correct about 1962 being the first production. I think I have one from 1962 even. I think I confused the BW 1963 change date.

[Klaus1989]

Steve,
I think you misunderstand. There is little mixing of the 2 uniforms Tarn- and Einsatzanzug, until adoption of the new Tarnjacken around 1967/68. So they obviously had enough camo trousers to not need further production at the time. The debate can be continued in the BRD subforum, if you want - it is an interesting topic!

btw the wool "Einsatzhosen" are winter field trousers, mostly were worn with the parkas.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

We understand each other because that is what I meant But we definitely should leave it alone now and let Michel get back to impressing us with his impressions!

Steve