Budyenovka - Opinions?

[ErichK]

Would appreciate any feedback on this WW2 budionovka, looks good to me but I've no experience.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=462217

[STEBALIN]

I don´t like the buttons, inside lining, and red star. I´d pass.

[AlexAtlas]

Later (much later) repro. Probably made in the early 90's. Tons of them were made as souvenirs when USSR dissolved and private enterprise became legal. I remember them being sold to tourists in every kiosk back in 92 in Leningrad/St.Petersburg.

[Adrian Stevenson]

I would agree with the comments already made.

Cheers, Ade.

[ErichK]

Thanks Gentlemen! I guess I'll continue waiting...

[uscob]

Later (much later) repro. Probably made in the early 90's. Tons of them were made as souvenirs when USSR dissolved and private enterprise became legal. I remember them being sold to tourists in every kiosk back in 92 in Leningrad/St.Petersburg.

I would say it's a better Repro than the Tourists Version you could buy at every Kiosk. Here somebody had some more work on the one shown.
I bought the Tourist Ones for 5 Marks from the Army Officers directly in Berlin so I guess, the production price was 1 Mark. They also had the Aluminum Stars on them and not the Enamel ones. Maybe they're made by Army Tailors in the DDR to make some extra money as I think they had the original drawings still on file. The fabric they had by the Yard in their Storages.

[Komandir RKKA]

Made for selling as original - fake item.

[sovvisor]

what´s the give away

I´ve checked the pics a couple of times and I don´t see anything obviously wrong except little wear. The buttons looks ok. Steal ones. Not exactly the same but one could have been lost. The enameled star looks alright. Officers wore them in WWII. The sewing looks ok. Not very good but the seldomly where. Fabric looks alot like the wwII type. At least could be. Dont know if the threads are black light checked for glowing. The interior looks ok with a little wear. Blacks star in cotton or felt. Hard to tell but have an authentic look. I´ll say that if it´s a repro it´s a very good one. Whats your give aways?
best

[STEBALIN]

I´ve checked the pics a couple of times and I don´t see anything obviously wrong except little wear. The buttons looks ok. Steal ones. Not exactly the same but one could have been lost. The enameled star looks alright. Officers wore them in WWII. The sewing looks ok. Not very good but the seldomly where. Fabric looks alot like the wwII type. At least could be. Dont know if the threads are black light checked for glowing. The interior looks ok with a little wear. Blacks star in cotton or felt. Hard to tell but have an authentic look. I´ll say that if it´s a repro it´s a very good one. Whats your give aways?
best

While the cap shows little wear, buttons are rusty and rather faded(at least one of them). Doesn´t that look suspicious to you?

Certainly it´s not a kiosk souvenir for tourists, but that "rusty buttons-not so worn fabric" combo is a huge warning flag for pre-war soviet headgear. It´s made to deceive and screw an unexperienced collector or just someone who hasn´t done his homework.

[AlexAtlas]

I´ve checked the pics a couple of times and I don´t see anything obviously wrong except little wear. The buttons looks ok. Steal ones. Not exactly the same but one could have been lost. The enameled star looks alright. Officers wore them in WWII. The sewing looks ok. Not very good but the seldomly where. Fabric looks alot like the wwII type. At least could be. Dont know if the threads are black light checked for glowing. The interior looks ok with a little wear. Blacks star in cotton or felt. Hard to tell but have an authentic look. I´ll say that if it´s a repro it´s a very good one. Whats your give aways?
best

Short answer: Because the fabric "looks WW2". there werre no hats of this type made in WW2. Or in 10 years prior to the war. None, Zero, Zip, Zilch. Anyone telling you otherwise knows nothing about Soviet military history.

Long answer: None were made by WW2 as stated above. Most were made around WW1 and into the 1920's during the Civil War. By 1930's they were no longer made OR issued to frontline-readiness troops. They were issued to secondary (artillery, etc) and cavalry units, but were extremely unpopular, as the design is archaic, outdated and generally disliked by troops. Cossacks didn't wear them, even the traitors that joined in on the soviet side. That left very few troops actually wearing them.

Either way, they were removed from all military use by mid-'30's. Some stayed in service, sure. But they would have been MOST LIKELY made in late 1920's OR around 1915.

And none of the material or parts matches up with those types. Look up some pictures of WW1 Russian soldiers to see the difference. There's also a few really nice ones at the military museum in St.Petersburg. I forgot the exact name, but they have tons of tanks and artillery in the front yard and everything from Teutonic Knight armor to Nuke parts inside. Great place to visit when you get sick of the cow-like crowds mucking up the Winter Palace.

[AlexAtlas]

I would say it's a better Repro than the Tourists Version you could buy at every Kiosk. Here somebody had some more work on the one shown.
I bought the Tourist Ones for 5 Marks from the Army Officers directly in Berlin so I guess, the production price was 1 Mark. They also had the Aluminum Stars on them and not the Enamel ones. Maybe they're made by Army Tailors in the DDR to make some extra money as I think they had the original drawings still on file. The fabric they had by the Yard in their Storages.

There would be ZERO chance an original WW1-Civil War Russian/Soviet Budeyonovka is available for purchase in Berlin anyway. Especially from an "army officer". DDR personnel didn't have the original 1915 Russian imperial uniform drawings on file anymore then I or you do. Which is to say they opened up a book and looked at a photograph.

Not to say that it's a bad fake. It's actually fairly nice (outside of the material being 100% fantasy color, the star being a later 80's style, the stitching incorrect, and etc) compared to the crud I see Russian dealers trying to pass off as original these days.

The guy selling it on here should probably have to move to repro section, before some poor shmuck buys this atrocity and the cycle of lies continues.

[Komandir RKKA]

RKKA's armoured troops winter helmet M38 used till the 1940 (actually till the 1941-42) when the winter "ushanka" was passed and is completely different piece.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=74473&page=6

[AlexAtlas]

RKKA's armoured troops winter helmet M38 used till the 1940 (actually till the 1941-42) when the winter "ushanka" was passed and is completely different piece.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=74473&page=6

Agreed, but when did the production of them actually go until? I was always under the impression they simply used up what was left in unissued stock, until the brass figured out what to slap on the tanker's heads.

Excellent Soviet Tunic collection BTW.

[sovvisor]

thanks

I can agree on the fabric but I have a very nice nkvd officers budy dated 1937. Sorry can´t take pics.it´s in southern sweden, but I have a feeling that as just like in the german army, veterans was proud of a long service time and a fairly worn budy was a great way to signal that, so I think they was used atleast til the great patriotic war started in 41. I agree on the cap badge. It´s to new. WWII stars use to be thicker with much enamel and a loose hammer and sicle.
Best

[uscob]

I can agree on the fabric but I have a very nice nkvd officers budy dated 1937. Sorry can´t take pics.it´s in southern sweden, but I have a feeling that as just like in the german army, veterans was proud of a long service time and a fairly worn budy was a great way to signal that, so I think they was used atleast til the great patriotic war started in 41. I agree on the cap badge. It´s to new. WWII stars use to be thicker with much enamel and a loose hammer and sicle.
Best

I know 2-piece Stars only from higher Officers Caps as the manufacture was to expensive.