Help needed with a Soviet North Fleet Navy Badge

[Jonatan]

Yikes, that was a long subject line .

Anyway, I have found this badge on steal(e)bay, and I wonder if anyone could help me ID it. The seller clames it to be as described in the subject line.

Also, does it seems to be the real deal?, I almost no knowledge about this kind of soviet enamel badges.

Thanks in advance,

Regards

Jonatan

[Komandir RKKA]

My opinion - fantazy badge.

[Eric Gaumann]

It does reference the Red Banner Northern Fleet, so the seller is correct.
It's certainly not an official military issue badge.
It's basic construction is similar to many veterans badges I've seen but the frogman motif is new to me.
I think the gentleman above is correct.

What is it about this badge interests you? Or, why do you want a Soviet Navy badge? Maybe we can get you pointed in the right direction.

[Kozlov]

My opinion - fantazy badge.

I agree

[Jonatan]

It does reference the Red Banner Northern Fleet, so the seller is correct.
It's certainly not an official military issue badge.
It's basic construction is similar to many veterans badges I've seen but the frogman motif is new to me.
I think the gentleman above is correct.

What is it about this badge interests you? Or, why do you want a Soviet Navy badge? Maybe we can get you pointed in the right direction.

First of all I would like to thank all for answering.

Well, I am looking for anything related with the Baltic Fleet, and more defined badges/gear of all sort related to the marine/fleet reconnaissance units in the baltic sea. Feels spontaneous that it is like looking for a needle in a haystack .

I am also looking for items related to the KGB reconnaissance units acting in the Baltic sea, I remember them as "spy-ships" (sorry for the rough translation) who was patroling the Baltic sea.

To be honest, I don´t even know in what extent those units existed. But it keeps me faschinated due to my memorys about those kind of units clamed to acting in the swedish archipelago during the cold war, especially during the eighties, I´ll guess the cold war paranoia in the swedish society during the eighties attracts my interest to this.

People familiar to cold war incidents, surely remember "whiskey on the rocks" incident back in 81.

I am thankfull for any advice conserning the "quest" for this. I am intrested in reference books, books that describes the diffrent units in the Baltic sea, everything else that may be related to this.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Jonatan

[Kozlov]

Ok, I'll give you the biggest hint you could have on this subject.... Soviet Spetsnaz units didn't have specific insignia or badges. Any you see advertised as such are either fantasy pieces or badges for veterans of those organisations.

If you want stuff related to the Baltic Fleet, just Naval Uniforms are your best bet. The enlisted men's donald duck hats have fleet specific tallies and if you go before 1974, the enlisted men's shoulder boards also are fleet specific (after this time they just have a "F" for Fleet)

[Jonatan]

Ok, I'll give you the biggest hint you could have on this subject.... Soviet Spetsnaz units didn't have specific insignia or badges. Any you see advertised as such are either fantasy pieces or badges for veterans of those organisations.

If you want stuff related to the Baltic Fleet, just Naval Uniforms are your best bet. The enlisted men's donald duck hats have fleet specific tallies and if you go before 1974, the enlisted men's shoulder boards also are fleet specific (after this time they just have a "F" for Fleet)

Thanks for the answer!, much appricated.

What about the spetsnaz insignas, any guidence on them?, any hints on where to search for reliable information about combinations used in what periods ect (exept here ), and maybe some kind of reference to compare with. Any ideas?

Also, any ideas on the simular to the topic above, but concerning KGB units?. Spontaneous
I do believe that the clandestine charracter of the "spy-missions" did not result in a enourmous amount of specific insignas. I have seen, on ebay, simple KGB cloth insignas, simular to the standard soviet badge , was that it?

To help me clarify, if anyone have any ideas, was spetsnaz responsible for all clandestine recon missions, like the ones which was supposed taken place during the cold war? Or what there any other organsiation exept the KGB?

I am, as stated in my last reply, intrested in litterature that descripes the Soviet Baltic sea organisation.

Thankfull for every answer!

Regards,

Jonatan

[Kozlov]

There were two intel gathering organs of the Soviet Union - the KGB and the GRU.

Neither was big on advertising their prescence to anyone - friend or foe...

The KGB did have their own set of uniforms, although obviously these were for formal occasions, not for running around in the enemy's rear

The KGB wore the same style of uniforms as the Soviet Army but their arm of service colour was "cornflower blue" (not the same blue as "sky blue" that sky forces wore). Enlisted men's shoulder boards had the cipher "GB" on them.

Other than that, the only time you would see anything with the KGB emblem of the Sword and Shield is on a "excellent KGB employee" badge. Not often awarded and very, very, very faked, genuine ones are rare and difficult to find.

The GRU was the Soviet Military's intelligence gathering department. Their targets were always military in content. They ran covert agents and full on military special forces recce teams. Their operatives wore no distinguishing insignia and could even swap uniforms as was needed to maintain their cover (ie they could appear to be anything!). Their informal emblem was that of a bat, in post-Soviet times this emblem became more official and even public. You can see today Russian soldiers wearing bat patches on their uniforms...

[Jonatan]

There were two intel gathering organs of the Soviet Union - the KGB and the GRU.

Neither was big on advertising their prescence to anyone - friend or foe...

The KGB did have their own set of uniforms, although obviously these were for formal occasions, not for running around in the enemy's rear

The KGB wore the same style of uniforms as the Soviet Army but their arm of service colour was "cornflower blue" (not the same blue as "sky blue" that sky forces wore). Enlisted men's shoulder boards had the cipher "GB" on them.

Other than that, the only time you would see anything with the KGB emblem of the Sword and Shield is on a "excellent KGB employee" badge. Not often awarded and very, very, very faked, genuine ones are rare and difficult to find.

The GRU was the Soviet Military's intelligence gathering department. Their targets were always military in content. They ran covert agents and full on military special forces recce teams. Their operatives wore no distinguishing insignia and could even swap uniforms as was needed to maintain their cover (ie they could appear to be anything!). Their informal emblem was that of a bat, in post-Soviet times this emblem became more official and even public. You can see today Russian soldiers wearing bat patches on their uniforms...

Thanks once again for the patience answering my questions. This is one of the reasons I love militaria collecting, compared to many other hobbies, people are so nice to people with lesser knowledge that themself. Thanks.

Have a great weekend everyone!

Regards,

Jonatan

[Gaffken]

The pin is likely an attempt to represent the Soviet Northern Fleet Naval Spetsnaz unit (which still exists today), though like the others said, it's not official, although I've seen similar badges existing for the 3-4 other Naval Spetsnaz units around Russia. The key feature here is the combat diver mounted on the diver tug, which is a representation of a Proton or Protey-series vehicle that does exist in the Soviet/Russian Spetsnaz inventory. Only a couple of units use this vehicle--the other one being the harbor defense units (combat diver groups considered part of the special troops along with Spetsnaz), but I have a hunch this pin is the more well known Naval Spetsnaz.

If you're interested in the Baltic unit, you'll probably be more successful trying to find one of the unit's patches--a member of that unit once described it to me as having a dolphin with the motto 'Dolg-Chest-Otvaga' on it, along with the 'Baltic Fleet' label. He admitted there are a lot of variations of the patch out there, but that those features constitute the basic composition of the unit's insignia...

[Jonatan]

The pin is likely an attempt to represent the Soviet Northern Fleet Naval Spetsnaz unit (which still exists today), though like the others said, it's not official, although I've seen similar badges existing for the 3-4 other Naval Spetsnaz units around Russia. The key feature here is the combat diver mounted on the diver tug, which is a representation of a Proton or Protey-series vehicle that does exist in the Soviet/Russian Spetsnaz inventory. Only a couple of units use this vehicle--the other one being the harbor defense units (combat diver groups considered part of the special troops along with Spetsnaz), but I have a hunch this pin is the more well known Naval Spetsnaz.

If you're interested in the Baltic unit, you'll probably be more successful trying to find one of the unit's patches--a member of that unit once described it to me as having a dolphin with the motto 'Dolg-Chest-Otvaga' on it, along with the 'Baltic Fleet' label. He admitted there are a lot of variations of the patch out there, but that those features constitute the basic composition of the unit's insignia...

Thank you very much for the answer!, I will keep my eyes open for that motto.