A Very Interesting Soviet Medals Group

[Bill D.]

By the way...The Lenin centenial medal is the civil version.

And do you think that both Red Banners and the Lenin would be long service awards if they were all awarded by 1945, the date in the Orders book? Even if he were credited with service from 1918, that would be less than 30 years.

It'll be interesting to get his file.

[NavyFCO]

And do you think that both Red Banners and the Lenin would be long service awards if they were all awarded by 1945, the date in the Orders book? Even if he were credited with service from 1918, that would be less than 30 years.

Yes, I would be fairly certain that both the Red Banners and the Lenin are for long service. Figure that if he had been serving since 1918, he would have hit 25 years of service in 1943, and 30 years in 1948. The long-service awards came into popularity in 1944, so he most likely was awarded the Red Banner first for his 20 years of service, and then the Lenin shortly thereafter for 25 years of service (the citations probably don't read that way, but that's probably what they were for). His second RB would be for going over 30 years of service. I bet that this latter award will be listed on one of those long, names-only citations with several hundred names on it. Of course, this is conjecture, only researching the group will bring about the true reason the awards were given. However, having researched quite a number of groups with Red Banner and Lenin pairs given between 1944 and 1945, all of them have been Civil War veteran's long service awards.

--Dave

[Rick Research]

The red stamps on Caucasus and Victory are usually a good sign of the "Organs." The titles, from what I can see, also seem to indicate something related to State Security. He may have been an "administrative" guy (even though his earlier title was "Intendant" and he is ID'd as "intendance branch" he's not wearing QMC branch insignia on his boards, which suggests PAY CORPS to me... (Doug will know better), but he was a "blueberry blue piping" administrative guy-- SS, and not army.

If you can blow up the stamps to about 5 inches square, they should be legible. Just can't read them at this distance. Do us the one on the 1938 too, since it is cropped an all I can read is "...Military District."

The vast bulk of Red Banners awarded "for 20 years service and more" on 3 November 1944 were in the (I have yet to firm up outer limits of numbers) 103, XXX to 199, XXX range. That is where his first ORB falls. Likewise, his Lenin is absolutely a 21 February 1945 block award, the first time those were handed out for "25-29 years." Those I've noted in the 20,XXX to 32,XXX range.

So ORB 2 is presumably from 1948. My numbers for these are far more spotty... but I note every single freakin' dated documented one I can, WW2 and especially POST WW2, trying to get feels for the dates.

Unfortunately in this type of Orders Book, without dates of bestowal, all you can ever know is that the FIRST one listed was when the Book was issued, privileges noted as starting 1 December 1944, which fits.

Aw, I was hoping the 1970 was the MILITARY type! That means he did NOT make it to General rank, since retired generals got the military version.