North Koreans in Vietnam

[Ken Jasper]

In line with Rick's recent posts about Soviet "tourists' In Vietnam during the war, an article in the current "Proceedings," the Journal of the US Naval Institute, reports that there is solid evidence that North Korean pilots flew Mig-17s with North Vietnamese markings during the war. Recently 14 graves were found in North Vietnam all of which bear the Vietnamese words for North Korea on them. Apparently, the North Koreans wanted to fly in the war to gain knowledge of US air tactics. Some of them may have learned about the tactics up close and personal.

[TWP]

Wouldnt be too surprised if Nroth Koreans fought in any one of the small conflicts all over the world and especially in 3rd world countries. It would be very interesting to read about their experiences. Of course this would never be possible due to their origins, but very interesting nonetheless. I wonder if anyone knows about South Korean troops and their experiences in Vietnam. I hear that South Korea will be sending 3000 combat and construction troops to Iraq very soon, despite all the guerilla attacks on both coalition forces as well as on US forces.

[TWP]

When I was in South Korea about 10 years ago, I talked to some cabbie who said he fought with the South Korean forces in Vietnam on the side of the US against the Viet Cong. He told me that if one of his comrades was killed, the South Korean troops would simply kill everyone in the suspected villages and then skin some of the Viet Cong, leaving the skin nailed to trees as a warning. I also spoke to someone from the US marines who said that their neighbours were South Korean troops. When he visited them he noticed they didnt set up barricades around their outposts. A clear invitation to the enemy to come and bring it on if they dared! Completely nuts.

[Rolf D.]

One of my teachers once told me that when he was in the army during peacetime he had a problem with the South Koreans stealing all sorts of supplies. First it sateted out with small stuff, tires, mufflers etc. later they put up huge fences and electrified them, and they still got away with stealing, but it was entire Jeep engines . He even saw where the S. Koreans stole a whole spool (15-20' in diameter) for who knows what. The thing that gets me is how they got all of that stuff stolen from them over and over. Their fellow occupiers (Turkish Soldiers) had just a small fence around their outpost. Maybe 6' high. When the S. Korean stole from them they hunted them down and killed them, then the Turks proceeded to lop off the heads and put them on the tops of the fence posts as a warning to the looters. They never had problems after that (The Turks that is...). One last one, is he and some of his buddies are driving down this road and see some S. Korean on the side of the road choking...he was siphoning gas and had swallowed some !

[JBFloyd]

The RoK Army had elements of two divisions in Vietnam (Capital and White Horse Divisions). As I recall, they were primarily in II Corps, from Pleiku down to the coast. They had a fearsome reputation, based on mythology and combat prowess. The NVA would take long detours around their AOs to avoid them.

[TWP]

Rolf, are you talking about Korean troops during the Vietnam war or about Korean civillians during the Korean War?
I thought this thread was about the Vietnam war.

[Rolf D.]

Being stationed in Korea during the VietNam, is what he told me.

[TWP]

Rolf, I had no idea Turkish troops were in Vietnam itself during the Vietnam conflict. Are you saying that the South Korean troops who were stationed in Vietnam were stealing from the Turks in Vietnam proper? I really didnt know that the Turks were in Vietnam during the Vietnam war. Are you sure it was Vietnam and not Korea?
Or if you are saying that the Turks were in South Korea during the Vietnam war era late 60s and 70s, then I didnt know that there were Turkish troops in South Korea during this time. Why would there be Turkish troops in South Korea during the Vietnam war?! I thought that there was only a US presence in South Korea during the 70s... Now I am really confused!

[kennethc]

Rolf, I doubt about your story.

I have quite a number of korean friends.
Korean are one of the people in the world who have high self-esteem and intelligent.
Till now, Japanese's products(such as vehicles honda, toyota) are not allow in the country.
They move on develope their own products and become one of the Advanced Countries right behind Japan. A good example, Samsung is top 1 best selling cellphones in states. Hyundai is catching up on Japanese cars and much more.

ken

[NavyFCO]

Rolf, are you talking about Korean troops during the Vietnam war or about Korean civillians during the Korean War?
I thought this thread was about the Vietnam war.

I think Rolf's teacher was referring to Korea after the Korean War. I don't know for certain if the Turks were there, but there was quite a mixed-bag of NATO and UN peacekeeping forces at the DMZ, representing several dozen nationalities. My father-in-law spent two years at the DMZ in the early 1960's on NATO/UN peacekeeping duty. Prior to duty there, he was sent through Russian language school. The reason for this was so that he could effectively communicate with the Warsaw Pact (including Russians, Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians, etc.) members on the other side of the DMZ!

During his tenure in-country, there was a huge amount of theft by Koreans from the NATO/UN convoys. He remembers convoys in which trucks were picked completely clean of their cargo driving through a single village! It eventually got bad enough that armed guards were placed on every truck with orders to "shoot to kill" any Korean that attempted to board the vehicle! One of the books here in my library also details the problem of theft during the early peacekeeping duty years in Korea, and I'll make an attempt to find it.

--Dave

[TWP]

KEN AND DAVE THANKS FOR THE REPLY.Yeah I am quite skeptical of the story Ralph had from his teacher as being from the Vietnam war. 1)I do not believe that Turks were in Vietnam. I know that the Koreans and Austrlainas were there but not the Turks.
2)Right after the Korean war as we know from German and Europe, people barely had food or clothing to survive and did whatever they could to survive and help their families survive. During the Vietnam War era South Korea was no longer a war torn nation and its economy was growing rapidly and now is the 12th largest Economy in the world. Thats more than most European nations.
High tech industries like Semiconductors, telecommunications, electorincs, computers, shipbuilding and automobiles are the stenghth of the economy, not clothes or shoes etc that are sold in the US. In fact Korea leads is the second largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world and 4th largest autromobile manufacturer in the world.
In telecommunications too it is a world leader.

From what I got from Rolfs reply, it was not very clear what he was talking about so I hope he will reply with a more factual and concrete answer, cos all I got from him was the feeling that he looked down on the Koreans as is quite evident from the email and almost like he thought it all a laughable joke the way he talked about it. My father was a missionary in Korea and the people are pretty honourable and respectable and have a lot of dignity, not like a bunch of faceless humans the way Rolf pictured it.

[Dave Danner]

There appears to be some confusion here.

Rolf's post was in apparent response to TWP's post about the South Korean Army's psychological warfare in Vietnam. Rolf pointed to a story he had heard about a similar tactic by the Turks in South Korea itself. He wasn't implying that Turks were in Vietnam.

That said, Rolf's teacher's story strains credibility. The Turks were in Korea as part of the United Nations Command, a combined command that includes Koreans. However aggressive the Turks or Americans (or ROKs themselves) may have been in controlling looters, I find it difficult to believe that the UNC would allow the Turks to do something as macabre as stick heads on posts.

Back to Vietnam...

Allied forces in Vietnam were officially referred to as Free World Military Assistance Forces. They were deployed under the auspices of SEATO, the South-East Asia Treaty Organization. In addition to American and South Vietnamese forces, troops came from Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Thailand and the Philippines. By 1969 these five had approximately 68,000 troops on the ground.

The Korean Corps consisted primarily of the Capital Division (also known as the Tiger Division) and the 9th (White Horse) Division, reinforced by the ROK 2nd Marine Brigade. Just under 50,000 Koreans were deployed.

Thailand's main contribution was the Black Panther Division, with 11,000 troops in country by mid-1969.

The Philippines contributed the Philippine Civic Action Group, a composite force of 1500-2000 troops.

The Australian Task Force averaged 2-3 battalions plus troops of the SASR. New Zealand had just under 1 battalion plus NZSAS.

Nonmilitary aid to South Vietnam came from the following countries: Australia, the Republic of China, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Laos, Malaysia, New Zealand, Pakistan, the Philippines, Thailand, Iran, Israel, Turkey, Liberia, Morocco, South Africa, Tunisia, Belgium, Denmark, the Federal Republic of Germany, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Uruguay and Venezuela.

[Robert P.]

From my tours in Vietnam from 1968-1970, we came in direct contact with ROK soldiers. In a basecamp named TayNinh, on the Cambodian/Vietnam border, there were allied ROK and Philippino combat troops. The Philippino's had bunkers which were connected with sand-bagged walkways to stop sniperfire. They were safely fortified. The ROKs, on the other hand, had NO perimeter wire around their compound. When the VC and NVA came close to their compound, the ROKs would leave the safety of their bunkers and assault the enemy, right out into the surrounding jungle. They were heroic and gallant soldiers. We respected them. They were tougher than anything we had ever witnessed before. On one occasion, while flying back from a mission (I was a UH-1 Doorgunner), we came over a very small outpost of about twelve ROK troops. We circled to investigate closer. The commander of this platoon had all but one of them in a formation for the others to observe being caned. When we drew closer the commander stopped what he was doing to angrily wave us away. Their little outpost was unsecured, no wire. Just a clearing in the middle of miles and miles of nippapalm trees. One single bunker for mortar and rocket protection. To make it short, we respected them. And from the reports of the interrogators, we learned the enemy was terrorized by the thought of them.
Chinese Communists were with the VC, NVA troops. Our experience with them was that they were found to be tax-collectors for North Vietnam. They really stood out, in that they were heavier, stronger looking and with different facial features. Most carried only sidearms, which the pilots of our helo teams had a passion for.

Been there, done that. A survivor.
Robert

[TWP]

Dang Robert, that is a great story. I respect you guys who fought there. One of my best friends is a guy last name Caldwell. I know, a lot older than me, but age isnt an issue with friedships. He was 19 when he went to Vietnam and was in the special forces. Got ambushed and run over a couple of times. Once all but him were wiped out in an ambush. He hid in the tall grass and when the Vietcong were searching for him, he could see the boots of one guy come real close to his face. He kept real silent and as soon as they turned away he shot them. A have a real respect for you guys who had to experience all this.
Kind reagrds
TW

[Robert P.]

Thanks, TW, for the respects.

Robert