1943 Order of Victory - 50s patch

[ethreecee]

what smilely faces? I never laughed at anyone and I defy to to show my laughter by the use of smilely faces! This is not a laughing matter as thousands of people read this forum and they read how you have impuned my moral character! The "technicality" as you called it, is (b) The item must be returned via traceable means, and in the same exact condition as was received.) <!-- / message --> is yours, as stated on your own rules and who are you anyway? i demand your apology or i will consult my lawyers about your liabelous statements about my morality! You cannot make such public insinuations and castigations, without any proof, and not expect the ramifications!! No one appointed you Reich Protector of this forum! After your insinuations, I absolutely refuse to provide any type of refund! I am in the right, not you!

[DougD]

lawyer

There are smiley faces about 5 posts before this, when you tell those who want a refund that since they can not prove that the items are fake ( i.e. back to the defence of proving a negative). You state that the patches were made for the daily uniform (though you post one of these fantasy patches on a PARADE uniform in your original post, thus even contradicting yourself), a statement that is false. Lucky Duck was even able to show you (he has a good eye!) that the wax seal was a home made trick.

You need to ask yourself why this thread was moved to this forum from the e-stand? Because the moderator knew these were not what you claimed and wanted to open it up to the soviet forum. I responded because what you have stated in your sales pitch is false, and people bought these items under a false pretense; it is sellers like you that make this a difficult hobby for novices to enter.

If i am not mistaken, the item that was purchased was the patch; this can be returned for a refund under the e-stand rules, as Navy FCO pointed out to you. By claiming that the packaging itself can not be opened is your way of getting 'around' the rules, though i doubt it fools anyone.

There are 2 possibilities here; one, that you yourself were misled by the original sellers of the patches and bought them in good faith. If so, you were defruaded. By then selling to someone else, you pass the fraud on and take on the responsibility for it ( thus the real use of a forum like this, where thousands visit). The second possibility is that you were well aware that these items were not as described and tried to sell them as such. I have my opinion of which of these is true.

You have sold items based on false information; you now refuse to refund the money paid by at least one buyer who has, under forum rules, asked for a refund. If that puts you in 'the right' then you simply have added to my original point. You try to deflect, but it is a poor effort.

As for your lawyer, have a good visit with him, but make sure you actually see his law degree and don't just take his word he is a lawyer.

[ethreecee]

You had better look closer! I never posted any smiley faces! So you sense of observeration is as incorrect as your opinion of me! This is my last reply to this witch hunt. Ban me from estand!

[NavyFCO]

As for your lawyer, have a good visit with him, but make sure you actually see his law degree and don't just take his word he is a lawyer.

Or perhaps you should find a person who simply cannot prove that he IS NOT a lawyer, and then consult his legal services.... Which is the same rationale that has been given with these badges: 'Prove that they aren't real'.

It's like selling a fantasy Third Reich badge, and then having the buyer requesition every RZM, manufacturer and jeweler catalogue prior to May 1945 in order to prove that it didn't exist. Pretty much an impossible task, as there just MIGHT have been a small jeweler in Frankfurt whose catalogue was missed who MIGHT have made it........

My opinion on this matter is this: ethreecee, I believe you were mislead when you purchased these badges originally. I have collected Soviet orders, medals and uniforms since 1987 (longer than perhaps anyone else on this forum) and I own literally hundreds of books of photos and regulations for uniforms and awards... None of which show this badge nor even offer any reason for it to exist (why take away the medal from the recipient, when Brezhnev was awarding himself the "real" ones after most of the original recipients had already passed on and their actual awards returned to the Diamond Fund in the Kremlin?)

Regardless of all that, and regardless of whether or not you were initially mislead as to the authenticity of the badges, the RIGHT thing to do (all finger-pointing aside) is to simply refund the money from the unhappy customer. It's not like that's a huge amount of money... a whopping $80 if he bought two of them.

My thought is this: Is it worth $80 to look like a poor businessman and unfriendly collector??? This hobby is supposed to be FUN, not some sort of competative market. Give the guy a refund and let's all get back to enjoying collecting with a few good lessons learned.

Dave

[NavyFCO]

By the way, here's a guy selling the badges (without the envelopes) on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/USSR-CCCP-soviet...QQcmdZViewItem

[Lucky Duck]

No offense, but here's how I see it.

Instead of clinging to $40 like it was your life savings, why not just refund the man, and put your crummy fake patches on ePier where they belong, instead of messing up the forum with amature junk and amature behavior?

I'm sure you got better stuff to sell and discuss here, instead of bringing it to the level of the Peshwar Goat Market.

Sincerely,
Ray

[coastie]

I'm just going to point out that these patches have been discussed a couple of times on the forum

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=order+victory

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...01#post1186001

[DougD]

interesting

Wow, good links....it is interesting that the second link / discussion deals with replicas right off the top...notice the last post on that thread...kind of implies that all who were on that thread knew that replicas ( nice word for fakes) were being talked about, not real versions....and this seems to have been quite some time ago. DD

[Jeff V]

I agree with the others. Simply refund the money and move on. There is no way somebody should have their name drug through the mud because of a lousy $80.00. The patches are fake. If the buyer is unhappy a refund is due. It is very simple to the outsider. best wishes,
jeff

[Sebastian Bianchi]

This is an interesting problem. The envelopes were opened, indeed, so of course they can't be returned in the same condition. Yet, it seems that at the minimun (and I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt) you had wrong information.

A fair solution is to return some of the money (half), and let the buyer keep the patch. At least they would be attained at a fair value.

Please respond and don't go away - you really don't want to lose your membership over some petty cash, do you?

[Craigob]

can i remind you all of this thread?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=172090&page=2

im sure you all read this last week.. just read the entire **** slinging match

[Sebastian Bianchi]

I would like a reply by tomorrow, or your account will be suspended.

[ethreecee]

This sounds a lot like blackmail!