1943 Order of Victory - 50s patch

[DougD]

patch

Bill, you are 100% right to be skeptical...these are tourist made items and have NO connection to the Soviet military or real Order of Victory holders. There are NO regulations for these in the soviet military and were made up by people trying to make money off selling a story ( thus the ebay sales job). I would love for the seller to show one real regulation ( a made up envelope, Dave pointed out the problems, is not evidence of anything but a hype job) or one photo of a holder of the Order of Victory wearing one of these.

As a tourist item they are fine, but I hope no one thinks these things have any connection to the Red Army or were ever actually used by the Red Army.

DD
ps- i wonder if the guy who got the idea for these was basing it on the German cross in silver/gold cloth examples.

[Bill D.]

Well, personally, I simply purchased mine off of Ebay as a "place holder" until I aquire a genuine example.

[NavyFCO]

but I hope no one thinks these things have any connection to the Red Army or were ever actually used by the Red Army.

Correction... Me seems to think that Comrade Zhukov seemed to favor them....

[DougD]

editing

Dave, you have wayyyy too much time on your hands...someone will think its a real image!-dd

[tgn]

So, in other words, the seller of these patches has not been honest in what he offered. They are NOT from the 50's and they are NOT official Soviet awards??? If so, I think the seller should offer a refund to anyone who bought one (or two) from him. Don't you agree???
Tom

[Bill D.]

I am NOT saying that the seller does not honestly believe what he wrote. I do think, however, that he is mistaken in the belief that these examples are from the 1950's, or that there was ever a cloth version of the Order that was meant to be worn by recipients.

[DougD]

awards

They are not from the 1950's and they are not original soviet awards; i think that there should be some 'buyer beware' clause (how could genuine cloth examples of the highest soviet award be avaliable in large numbers for under $40??); however, I would agree that the seller should offer a refund.

[ethreecee]

This morning, tgn sent me an email requesting a refund on his stars, stating the evidence presented in this forum proved the patches not to be of soviet military issue. I sent this response:


Hello Tom;
I am sorry you are disappointed with your stars. I purchased ten (10) of them in Vladivostok in 1999 when I was there working for OSCE during their elections. I merely passed on the descriptions provided to me by the curator of the museum there by the Russian submarine. There was no deception on my part and I am sure you will agree that the workmanship is remarkable. I am not aware where they were manufactured, but most likely in some Soviet or post-Soviet area. They are nice patch representations of the Order and that is the proof of the pudding. As to any military authority providing authorization for the display of these patches, I have no knowledge of the Soviet and post-Soviet military regulations. I merely passed on what was told to me seven (7) years ago when I purchased these. I apologize for your dissatisfaction, however, I do feel you received the merchandise as displayed on the forum and I do not offer a refund. It did certainly stir up a good deal of discussion, in any event, and I learned that the pedigree of these patches is not as was explained to me, well, no one has shown me any proof that they are not military issue, they just say they are not. So, until that is proven beyond any doubt, I shall not retract my sales statement.
Thank you again for your interest

[DougD]

military issue

The fact that you will not offer a refund on items that are clearly not as you described (you put the text on the site, not the curator of the so called museum; they become your words) says alot about your moral code; to prove they were not soviet issue is impossible (how can i prove the laptop i am on right now is not soviet military issue?).

If these were real awards then finding the regulations for them or ANY support would be easy. There has been an overwhelming amount of opinion on this subject, all against your point of view. You should be able to back up your claims with at least some evidence.

That all being said, the items are not bad patches, and priced reasonably for what they are; the buyers should have used a bit better judgement if they thought they were getting genuine high end soviet awards for under $40. However, as the seller, who provided an incorrect description, you should bear the responsibility for refunding the buyers payment. The fact that you will not should turn people away from dealing with you.

[NavyFCO]

I apologize for your dissatisfaction, however, I do feel you received the merchandise as displayed on the forum and I do not offer a refund.

In accordance to the e-stand rules, even if they are 100% genuine, you are required to accept a return "for any reason" within seven days of the buyer receiving the item. This is an excerpt from the e-stand regulations:

I) Returns –

a) Returns must be allowed by the seller for any reason for a period of 7 seven days from when the items arrives.

b) The item must be returned via traceable means, and in the same exact condition as was received.

[Lucky Duck]

I surely can't be the only guy who noticed the "seal" is reversed and made by squishing a common patriotic war medal onto melted wax. Seems pretty obvious to me, and I don't even collect this stuff!

Sincerely,
Ray

[ethreecee]

If the envelopes were opened, how can they be returned in the same exact condition? I stand by your own rules.
As to the seals, I did not place them there and I do not know what the russian used to make them. If you all decide to bar me from selling on estand, then so be it.

[ethreecee]

This seems to be the statement that has stirred you all up:

This beautiful badge patch was designed for wear with the daily uniform.<O></O>

I was told this when I purchased the pieces and you cannot prove this to be false.

[ethreecee]

I do not accept your condemnation of my "moral codes!" You have no right to say that about me! I stand by my statement on my estand placement! Who are you to judge my moral character? I resent your implications and humbly ask you to retract that printed statement about my morality!

[DougD]

code

I stated, and stand by the statement, that your refusal to refund the money to the defrauded buyers says something about your moral code. You implied that 'something' is a negative; thats your assumption.

Here you have an item, clearly that was not what you stated, and you refuse to refund the buyers money (even taunting them with the smiley faces); would you not say this has to do with your moral code?

Don't try to deflect the argument or hide behind a technicality that you invented to get around the E stand rules as they were posted here.