Order of the Patriotic War 2nd class - opinion?

[capitano]

Hello! I stumbled upon this little piece while starting Soviet branch of my collection. The question is - is it good?
And also, if it's good - what is the value? Don't want to overpay :/
Thanks in advance! DSC_0278.JPG DSC_0279.JPG

[Marcel Banziger]

It's a nice original Krasnokamsk Mint made order, awarded most likely second half of 1944 (no exact date can be given, only research will give the actual date).

[leaftree]

Looks like a KMD award. Probably awarded mid 1945:
http://mondvor.narod.ru/OPatWar4.htm

[judorichard]

I think it's a repro. The low serial number indicates WWII issue but in my experience the early versions of this award were made of silver and the gold hammer & sickle was a separate piece attached with two pins that you would see on the reverse. Also, the Mint mark doesn't look right. I would pass.

[Komandir RKKA]

Original wartime award.

[Marcel Banziger]

I think it's a repro. The low serial number indicates WWII issue but in my experience the early versions of this award were made of silver and the gold hammer & sickle was a separate piece attached with two pins that you would see on the reverse. Also, the Mint mark doesn't look right. I would pass.

The pics are very bad yes but still it is obvious the hammer/sickle is seperately attached and the two points of attachment can be seen good enough. Besides that this is not an early version either. This one looks exactly as should be for the serial number range. Here's mine from the same batch (also bad pics I admit but these were taken looong ago - which is no excuse, I know :

[zook]

Yes - I think it’s solid , nice one !

[judorichard]

The pics are very bad yes but still it is obvious the hammer/sickle is seperately attached and the two points of attachment can be seen good enough. Besides that this is not an early version either. This one looks exactly as should be for the serial number range. Here's mine from the same batch (also bad pics I admit but these were taken looong ago - which is no excuse, I know :

Your one looks absolutely right. The one this thread is about shows no signs of age or wear so I still don't like it. I think it is a reproduction. The problem with collecting Russian / Soviet Orders, medals and badges is that they still have all the original dies over there so they can make perfect reproductions. This one just doesn't look old.

[Marcel Banziger]

Your one looks absolutely right. The one this thread is about shows no signs of age or wear so I still don't like it. I think it is a reproduction. The problem with collecting Russian / Soviet Orders, medals and badges is that they still have all the original dies over there so they can make perfect reproductions. This one just doesn't look old.

Keep in mind that not only frontline soldiers earned these. Also clerks, staffmembers and all kinds of others in the rear got these awarded. Saying an order doesn't look old with no signs of wear or age doesn't really matter since there are countless of originals out there which still look as mint as the day they were made. I blame it on the lousy pics that cause doubts

[judorichard]

Compare the Mint marks. See how strong the mark is on Marcels original. Compare that to the Mint mark on Capitano's. See how the letters appear to have been struck individually on Capitanos. Also, metals like silver oxidize and over time a patina develops. Even an unissued OPR would have developed a dark patina over 75 years. I have handled a lot of these orders and in my opinion, Capitanos is a repro.

[judorichard]

I tried putting the images of the reverse of the two Orders next to each other to show the differences. Look at where the handle of the sword meets the tip of the star. On the real Order (Marcels) it forms a "C". On the repro, it forms a "V". Also, compare the Mint marks. The mark on Marcels is deep, dark and crisp. The mark on the repro is much lighter and the letters are farther apart. If these two came from the same Mint at around the same time (according to the numbers) they should be nearly identical in form and have almost identical Mint marks. They have different forms and different Mint marks. Also, the way the screw posts are welded on is different.

[Komandir RKKA]

Keep in mind that not only frontline soldiers earned these. Also clerks, staffmembers and all kinds of others in the rear got these awarded. Saying an order doesn't look old with no signs of wear or age doesn't really matter since there are countless of originals out there which still look as mint as the day they were made. I blame it on the lousy pics that cause doubts

Be sure, your order is original wartime KMD produced item (4th party of GPW order second variant)

[Marcel Banziger]

Those tiny differences in the mintmark don't concern me. Compare many orders and you'll see these quite often. Thousands and thousands were produced in single batches, the stamping didn't always go as should be. I've seen these with the mintmark upside down, or stamped on top of another mintmark. These are anomalies that are not nice, not wanted, but did happen.

To end this discussion from my side; I wouldn't mind to add this order to my collection and I am pretty sure better quality pics would help this order a great deal.

[Marcel Banziger]

Here's another original starback KMD which also has the features of the first order from this thread:

[judorichard]

Here's another original starback KMD which also has the features of the first order from this thread:

Hi Marcel. This one also looks good. I like both of yours. The one that is up for opinion, posted by Capitano, is in my opinion a repro. That is my opinion. Look at the final character in "Monyetniy", it is a backwards N, which forms a "Y' sound in Russian. On the two Orders you show there is a line above the backwards N as there should be. Look at the same character on the Order that this post is about and you will see the line above the character is missing. This is my final post as I have made all the points I feel are relevant.