Mystery cammo

[Kozlov]

A fellow member on another forum has turned up a strange Soviet MKK style two piece cammo coverall in Poland.

The picture below is black and white, but apparently the colours are quite a dark green on a sandy/straw background - which sounds a fairly standard colour scheme for all of this type of item (Soviet or otherwise).

I've not seen this particular cammo print before - its similar to leaf but not the same.

Any ideas:

[Kozlov]

BTW, don't bother picking up Shalito or Desmond... its not in either book ;-)

[Wesley's Dad]

Camo Suit

BTW, don't bother picking up Shalito or Desmond... its not in either book ;-)

It is probable that it is not Soviet. The Romanian Army and the Polish and Czech as well I think had early post war camo suits cut in the pattern of the wartime Soviet suits.

Mike

[Aave Johns]

Cams

Looks alot like the late war pattern used by Soviet troops in Austria (may well have been used in other areas, but Austria is the only photo sets I have seen).

Regards;
Johnsy

[Wesley's Dad]

Troops in Austria

Looks alot like the late war pattern used by Soviet troops in Austria (may well have been used in other areas, but Austria is the only photo sets I have seen).

Regards;
Johnsy

Does the Austrian photo set you refer include the famous shot of the four Soviets crewman in a Lend-Lease White Scout Car? Two in the front wearing a leaf pattern and the two in the back wearing the Amoeba pattern? If this is the photo in particular to which you refer, a careful look at the details of the pattern show it (to my eyes) to be the more standard Soviet leaf pattern. The contrast of the typical printed reproduction of this photo makes it appear a bit funny, but specific pattern details can be identified in my opinion. If you speak of other photos, I'd like to see them or at least know the bibliographical reference where other photos may be found.

The suit in question might be wartime, but this style of suit was made by several Eastern Bloc countries in the early post war in several patterns. At the worst, should it prove to be postwar, these suits are pretty rare in themselves. They may not be as sexy as wartime Soviet suits, but collectible none the less.

Mike

[Kozlov]

Yes this definitely isn't leaf pattern... I'm pretty familiar with that one.

Michael, yes, I've seen several different NSWP members' efforts in this field... just not this one!

Its got to be one of those, but which?

[uscob]

Hello and good morning!
This is the soviet ww2 Sniper Camo fabric. It comes in the same Design with original fabric. The Soviets gave it to the polish government to make their own suits. Normally they are comming with a little tag at the lower seam on the Jacket, but it is very easy to remove them, and than, nearly nobody, can say that it's Soviet or Polish.
I had a lot of them, still with the tags, made from 1951 to 1955.
Maybe I can get some more if there is any interrest.
It's great for WW2 Reenactment.
Cheers
Nico

[Kozlov]

Ok, so its Polish but Soviet made material... do you mean just material or do you mean printed material??

And yes, I would be interested in a set if the price was right

[uscob]

I mean the complete, ready to use fabric, printed and rolled.
They told me that it was the rest with some thousand meters what the soviets didn't used after the war, so they sold it to the polish.
I try to get another ones, and the I can tell the exact price. The last ones I sold for 150.00 Euros each, and it took 3 week to sell 25 Sets.
Cheers
Nico

[Kozlov]

Firstly let me say I'm not doubting you Nico... but if this is a WW2 Soviet cammo pattern, used to make those suits, why is it not in Desmond or Shalito if its available in what appears to be fairly large numbers inside of Poland....

[uscob]

They have large numbers because they made them for the polish Army.

[Wesley's Dad]

"the" sniper pattern?

Can you elaborate on just what you mean by "the Soviet sniper pattern"? To my knowledge, there is no such explicit thing. There are several wartime patterns, all used by snipers, all used by scouts, all used by assault engineers, all used by any unit lucky enough to get them. I think the question with this pattern is that it does not comform to the "known" Soviet wartime patterns. It resembles the known leaf pattern only superficially, it is not the same or even similar really when compared side by side.

I'm still not sold this is Soviet in origin. I think the cut is obviously, but the pattern is probably unique to some Warsaw Pact nation from the early post war. I say probable because I am certainly not any final word on this topic, but consider myself pretty abreast on the known patterns of which this one is not one of. This is strictly my opinion.

Mike

[csodagyerek]

polish parsley camo

hello all.

I am new to this forum, but hope that I can help out some. I am a collector of desant sniper/scout camo oversuits from WP countries as well as yugoslavia. In short I have amassed almost all post war examples from Czechoslavakia, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and I have a couple of soviet suits as well as the yugo suits. I am a member of several forums and what I have been able to gather is that this was an early polish suit and some have referred to it as 1953 parsley pattern. The material was probably printed in Poland or one of the other warsaw pact countries. I doubt it was printed in the Soviet Union. ( it could have been, but alot of these things started to be made more locally) Also one interesting note about the czech camo, I read in one of the threads here that the czech grass suits are soviet manufacture, When indeed this is not the case. I have all three examples of the czech camo oversuits and they are all sewn in the same style. One perculier thing about the czech camo is the sophisticated hood it can be totally undone via buttons. I also have a soviet grass suit and it is the same cut as a soviet snow suit with mittens etc. It lacks a veil and has the grass trimmed a bit. It also has built in mittens. I hope this was a help . I think it is interesting that it was marked between 1951-1955. Just out of curiosity what were the buttons made of. The suit I have has plastic buttons, But I have seen suits with pressed paper buttons as well. I also have a splinter suit that has pressed paper buttons so I was just wondering hmmm very interesting

[Kozlov]

Excellent, I think that answers it nicely!

Thanks very much and welcome aboard

[Wesley's Dad]

Grass Suits

hello all.
I also have a soviet grass suit and it is the same cut as a soviet snow suit with mittens etc. It lacks a veil and has the grass trimmed a bit. It also has built in mittens.

Thanks for the information on the Polish camo, I find these camo derivatives of Soviet items to be very interesting. I do have one question with respect to the quoted bit of text from your post. Not sure where your's came from, but the current crop of grass suits most often seen in the US market bother me a great deal and I feel they should be avoided. How do you tell a real grass suit from an early postwar snow suit that has been dyed green with tufts added?

This is quite a simple conversion really. I have a nice, early 1950's snow suit in my collection, 100% cotton and identical to wartime in every respect save the date stamp. Unfortunatly for us, but to the favor of the fakers, the date stamp on the smocks is typically along the hem at the waist skirt of this simply constucted garment. Should an undated example be too tough to locate (can't imagine it would be)...It would be quite easy to remove about 1" of material from the skirt and rehem the garment. Also, my garment has no face veil either.

Despite the fact that the handful purported "original" I have been offered were so cut, I'm not yet convinced at this point that an original grass suit should even be the same cut as the snow suit. I don't think there is a reliable reference yet. If you could point me toward one I would be most appreciative. As a note, the grass suit smock shown in Shalito's second book does not appear to be cut like the snow suit, it has a button front collar drape more like the printed pattern suits of the era.

Mike Baskette