flecktarn parker(?)

[redline09]

just a question about a modern flecktarn parker. nothing of value.

i bought a second hand, 1993 dated one on ebay for general use. everything seems fine but i noticed the one i bought has a arm pocket on the right rather than the left.

i was just wondering, did army issue flecktarn parkars have pockets on either side or just on the left?

thanks


example

[Proud Kraut]

They just have one pocket on the upper right sleeve. In addition newer parkas have a fleece patch on the upper left sleeve for velcro back patches.

[Collectinsteve]

Pockets for both the parka and the field shirt had pockets on the arms switched starting in 1993 and completed by 1994. A number of other modifications happened in the first few years of production, usually similar for both the parka and field shirt (sometimes trousers too).

Steve

[uscob]

I had the same question some day's ago while sorting 600 Feldbluse I got.
Normally, the Pocket is on the left Sleeve, but I also found some on the right sleeve.
A friend said it might be just a variation as I have them from the same years right or left.
He said, some People in the Army say it's an Officers Version, but i doubt this, even when these are in a bit better quality and also have an additional Velcro in the Breast Pocket Flaps for better fit.
Both Versions have NSN, so Private Purchase isn't an option for me.
Maybe we find out one day.
BTW:
There is also an older Feldbluse Version with an inner large Pocket for Documents. Newer ones don't have these. Most of this Version also have the old Copper Coloured buttons and not the black plastic ones. Only saw 2, maybe from Transitional Period with Plastic Buttons.
The largest Feldbluse I found is a 185-195 Height with a 130 cm Chest.

[Collectinsteve]

Ooo! I get to use the nice chart I made many years ago. Good, because it has been gathering dust

The pocket position was absolutely standard on the right arm until 1993, when it switched to the left arm. I can say this for sure because 1989 TrVsu jacket and parka had the pocket on the right arm and all examples I've seen from 1990-1992 have it on the right. All examples from 1994 on have it on the left. 1993 was the year of transition so there are items in that year that are either left or right.

The brass snaps are standard for TrVsu through 1992, when the change was made to plastic.

Velcro inside the pocket flaps is another thing that changed. First it was there without exposed (visible on surface) reinforcement stitching, then with reinforcement stitching, a few other variations, then gone completely.

The inside pocket of the jacket (Feldhemd) also changed, as did details of the pen holder in the right chest pocket.

Also, the flashlight button was eventually dropped.

Here is a chart I made to show the differences I've observed first hand:

Type.....Years.....Snaps.....Arm Pocket.....Pocket Velcro....Interior Pocket...Pen Holder....Buttons
First......1990......Brass......Right............. .None..................None............Far Right.........Yes
Type 1...91-93.....Brass......Right.............Exposed/Center...Yes...............Far Right.........Yes
Type 2...91-92.....Brass......Right.............Hidden/Lower......Yes..............Far Right .........Yes
Type 3...92-93.....Plastic.....Right.............Hidden/Lower......Yes..............Far Right.........Yes
Type 4...93..........Plastic.....Right.............Expo sed/Lower....Yes..............Far Right.........Yes
Type 5...93..........Plastic.....Left...............Exp osed/Center...Yes..............Mid Right.........Yes
Type 6...94..........Plastic.....Left...............Non e..................Yes..............Far Right.........Yes
Type 7...94-98.....Plastic.....Left...............None........ ..........None............Mid Right.........None

These variations applied to parka, jacket, and trousers consistently when relevant. For example, 1994 trousers had plastic buttons and no velcro for the pocket flaps.

If anybody has something different than what is on this chart, please post the info here!

Steve

[uscob]

I'll check them when I go back to sorting.

[uscob]

Sorted some now:
What I call now

Type1:Sleeve Pocket right arm, Inner Pocket, Metal Buttons, later with Plastic
Type2: Pocket left Arm, Inner Pocket, Plastic Buttons
Type3: Same but without inner Pocket

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks! OK, so nothing different than on my list?

Categorizing these variations is difficult to do because there are so many small variations and overlapping production runs. But if I had to boil it down I'd say:

1st Model (1990-1993) - right arm pocket, brass snaps
2nd Model (1992-1993) - right arm pocket, plastic snaps
3rd Model (1993-today) - left arm pocket, plastic snaps

Use of velcro, inner pockets, pen pocket positions, etc. are all fairly minor variations which aren't easy to see. Arm pocket placement and snap type should be fairly easy to spot.

Steve

[redline09]

thanks for the information, thats quite interested. a design change makes sense.

i only asked because i read an old thread regarding fake (chinese made) bundeswehr items.

[lew]

Steve, thanks for the data. I'll check my Flecktarn stuff, but I think it's all pre-1993.

I'm assuming that only applies to Flecktarn, as all my Wüstetarn wear has brass pocket snaps, and they're all '94-dated or newer.

[markus]

In 1995 we were all issued black, plastic snap buttons. Velcro underneath the flap pockets.Pocket on left sleeve only. I served with 4./FschJg Btl 313 at the time. I recall NCOs with brass buttons. Already noted the difference at the time. I always thought that had been a personal thing and those particular NCOs had rubbed off the paints of the buttons...

Cheers
Markus

[Collectinsteve]

i only asked because i read an old thread regarding fake (chinese made) bundeswehr items.

There were definite Chinese copies of the basic uniform back in the mid 1990s. Very difficult to identify from pictures, but once in hand it's easy to see differences. The jackets mimicked what I detailed as the "First" issue. I had a few sets at one point. They are pretty rare, so not much worry about them.

I'm assuming that only applies to Flecktarn, as all my Wüstetarn wear has brass pocket snaps, and they're all '94-dated or newer.

Good question! My chart only applies to 5FTD Flecktarn (official temperate name), not 3FTD Tropentarn (current official desert name) or 5FTD Tropentarn (official tropical name). Wüstentarn, which is the sort of pinkish desert pattern, came about in 2004 and was only made in the so-called KSK cut.

3FTD Tropentarn expeirmental 1993/94 is its own thing. TSR's 1995 commercial production was modeled after the last pattern of Moleskin. The production type of 3FTD and 5FTD Tropentarn were identical then and are still identical today. They have mesh armpits, no jacket zippers, etc.

As far as I know the first production 3FTD Tropentarn general issue was 1999. Between 1993 trials and 1999 there was no official production uniform. I do have a genuine BW frag vest in 3FTD dated 1995, so for sure some items were made during this period.

I'm interested in seeing any 3FTD items made between 1994 and 2004 that are not TSR manufactured. What do you have?

In 1995 we were all issued black, plastic snap buttons. Velcro underneath the flap pockets.Pocket on left sleeve only. I served with 4./FschJg Btl 313 at the time. I recall NCOs with brass buttons. Already noted the difference at the time. I always thought that had been a personal thing and those particular NCOs had rubbed off the paints of the buttons...

NCOs often like to distinguish themselves by wearing older items that recruits don't wear. Good way to rub seniority in their faces Since the brass buttoned uniforms were older, it all makes sense.

Steve

[lew]

Steve,

I'll have to check. Thanks for setting me straight on the nomenclature.