Fire or police? Can someone help? Thank you!

[Kripo73]

I would like some help from you BRD guys. Is this buckle fire or police? An eBay member is trying to sell it. Many thanks ahead of time!

[Kripo73]

Let’s try that again

[Collectinsteve]

I think that's Hamburg Polizei. For a small amount of time the different states had their crests on belt buckles. But I've never seen a Hamburg one so for all I know it could be Feuerwehr.

Steve

[Tom B]

I think that's Hamburg Polizei. For a small amount of time the different states had their crests on belt buckles. But I've never seen a Hamburg one so for all I know it could be Feuerwehr.

Steve

I agree. Tom

[Kripo73]

It’s a little confusing because I was under the impression that the city/state coat of arms on the buckles was for the fire police. Thank you for your input.

[Gordon Craig]

Kripo,

You can find these buckles listed for sale as both for Feuerwehr and polizei and perhaps both organizations wore them at some point. Further research would be needed to be sure. Here is a picture of a partial page from an olc catalogue showing this buckle as polizei. This page is probably from a much earlier date than we are talking about here but still relevant. I would consider this buckle polizei at this point.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Nice post, Gordon!

Yeah, I was kinda suspicious that a generic crest buckle might have been worn by more than one organization, just like the standard black leather "double fang" belts were used all over the place.

My hunch is the buckle is Hamburg Polizei at a minimum. The timeframe for these buckles, I think, is mid 1960s to very early 1970s. But that's more a guess than anything else.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

As I said above, more polizei than feuerwehr to me. It was common for West German polizei to wear similar buckles to those worn by polizei pre 1933 which is why I said the page I posted was relevant.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Yup, I think that is some excellent evidence that it's Polizei. The early BRD period has lots and lots of examples of near identical Third Reich or earlier uniform traditions still in place.

Steve

[Tom B]

Yup, I think that is some excellent evidence that it's Polizei. The early BRD period has lots and lots of examples of near identical Third Reich or earlier uniform traditions still in place.

Steve

I agree. Tom

[Kurt Leimbach]

The buckle is definitely post-1945 Hamburg police. As such, it was worn until the 1970ies when all German Länder agreed to introduce the same basic type of uniform only distinguished by Länder-specific arm patches and cap cockades. By the way, the Overhoff leaflet is also post war and described as such by Wilhelm Saris who posted it on another forum.

[Gordon Craig]

Kurt,

Thanks for your comments. I was not aware that Wim had posted this page from the leaflet before or I would have credited it to him. Thanks for clarifying its time frame.

Regards,

Gordon