BGS four pocket tunic

[BW-Sammler]

Hey guys,

this week I got this nice tunic.
It´s made of rough wool and stamped 1./GSG5

It seems to be a pre 1960 piece because I found certificate which is dated 1960.

The wearer left the BGS on health reasons.

Regards
Stefan

[BW-Sammler]

More pics 1

[BW-Sammler]

More pics 2

[BW-Sammler]

More pics 3

[BW-Sammler]

Last pics

[Collectinsteve]

That is a very nice one! I agree this looks like late 1950s issue. The rough wool is interesting.

It is also great to see the GSG stamp. Most of mine have none. I think the practice was discontinued very early in BGS history. Does anybody know anything about that?

Steve

[Klaus1989]

yes, is the first model of 4 pocket tunic in rough wool with plain cuffs. They were worn 1953 until about 1961/62 (with collar tabs from 1957 on). I have several of these, all with rayon linings. Have seen the cotton twill lining only in my early tunics, could be earlier 4 pocket (updated 1957 with collar tabs) or a production variant. The more familiar trikot wool/polyester blend tunics with turnback cuffs first appeared 1960.

GSG stamp is for unit (1. Hundertschaft of Grenzschutzgruppe 5, so it match the paper). Not sure, when discontinued.

Rank is for Grenzoberjäger in NCO training. Not a common rank to see! The enlisted rank above GOJ, Grenzhauptjäger, was mostly "dead end" for specialised enlisted and non NCO material.

Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

Not sure, if the rank is original to the tunic or not. Attachment is strange and rank not match the paper (is only Grenzjäger).

[Nachrichten]

Not sure, if the rank is original to the tunic or not. Attachment is strange and rank not match the paper (is only Grenzjäger).

I agree.

Look at how the shoulder boards are attached. Very sloppy. Stitching visible through the sleeve.

Also, the collar tabs appear to be of a later style. The presence of the 'A' also raises an issue for me. In the tunics which I have seen that have come from an individual, that marking is not present. If a garment has been withdrawn via stores, then this is a usual mark.

I sense that this tunic may be a reconstruct.

Just my opinion, of course.

N

[BW-Sammler]

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for your replies.

I got the tunic from the son of the wearer.

It's possible that the wearer stayed longer at the BGS than noted on the certificate.
Maybe his health became better.

[BW-Sammler]

I agree.

Look at how the shoulder boards are attached. Very sloppy. Stitching visible through the sleeve.

Also, the collar tabs appear to be of a later style. The presence of the 'A' also raises an issue for me. In the tunics which I have seen that have come from an individual, that marking is not present. If a garment has been withdrawn via stores, then this is a usual mark.

I sense that this tunic may be a reconstruct.

Just my opinion, of course.

N

Hi,

how does the collar tabs have to look like that they would match to this early tunic?
The tabs look original applied to the tunic in my opinion.

I think that the "A" stamp means "Ausgemustert" (engl.:decommissioned)

Regards

[Klaus1989]

I think what he mean is A is normally marked, when ausgemustert as surplus and not when individual take it home. But maybe they did in his case (to show he had permission to take it)? Not sure.

Collar tab differences are very slight. Later ones are slightly larger and different shade of green, thread is a little different and a few minor details, many of which are hard to see, when not in person...

I have several of these tunics with period applied tabs, all are the same. Here is comparison with a later tab (left). Photo of stitching on underside would help.



Regards
Klaus

[BW-Sammler]

Thanks Klaus for reply and the comparsion image.

I added photos of the tab and the stiching on underside.

Regards,
Stefan

I think what he mean is A is normally marked, when ausgemustert as surplus and not when individual take it home. But maybe they did in his case (to show he had permission to take it)? Not sure.

Collar tab differences are very slight. Later ones are slightly larger and different shade of green, thread is a little different and a few minor details, many of which are hard to see, when not in person...

I have several of these tunics with period applied tabs, all are the same. Here is comparison with a later tab (left). Photo of stitching on underside would help.


Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

The stitching looks good to me. The most important thing to check is if the tabs show signs of two sets of holes... one with the threads and one from a previous stitching. One set of holes doesn't mean it's original (it is possible to find new tabs), but two sets means it was added after.

The BGS might have required the rank be removed before being surplused, the trooper acquired the rank separately, then put it on himself (with limited skills). Sewing new rank correctly is a pain in the butt even for someone experienced with sewing.

Since you got this uniform from the son of the original owner, and it has paperwork to match, I'd go on the assumption that the rank is correct and original to the jacket.

Steve

[Klaus1989]

the stitching appear to be same colour thread as used to construct tunic, which is typical for period applied collar tabs, that I have on my tunics. I not see the problem. I would agree with Steve's theory about the shoulderboards. There is also the owners name tag in the pocket. Yes, one could copy these, but can not see why someone would make effort to do this on BGS uniform to invent a story. For WW2 would make sense, but not for postwar.

Regards
Klaus