Affenjacke

[J C Gray]

Hi, this is the first time I have posted in this section of the forum and I wanted to ask a few questions about this Affenjacke which I recently rediscovered in my attic. When I bought it (about 35 years ago) I had literally no idea what it was, but it had been re-badged with a mixture of original WWII panzer and fake SS insignia. I stuck it on ebay a few months back, but due to lack of interest, I decided to hold on to it, so I wanted to ask if it would be worth restoring and if so, would the appropriate insignia be easy enough to get hold of?.
All I really know about these jackets is what little is written in the two Hormann books on Infantry & Panzer uniforms.
The shoulder straps are missing, as is the issue tag, but all buttons, both internal and external, seem to be present. There is evidence that it once had the small, rectangular collar litzen and there are minute traces of some woven, metallic piping on the collar, but what is left has oxidised almost black, so I cannot tell whether it was originally silver or gold. Also, would this have been an Army tunic?
I appreciate any advice.

John

[Collectinsteve]

Welcome to our part of the site

Shame the label is gone as that affects price a bit. Especially if this was a labeled 1955 or very early 1956. The reason this is important, to a serious collector anyway, is that there are two types of collar insignia. The earlier type are metal branches of service, the latter are (effectively) the same bevo badges that are worn to this day. I forget the change over date, but the point here is that the earlier dated jackets are VERY hard to find and having metal badging is not technically correct for anything but.

Given that there is no difference other than the label, you can make this a 1955/56 type or you can make it a 1956/57 type. Most 55/56 types were switched over to Bevo types while in service so few remain in original condition. Put another way, you could technically make a mistake using metal collar badges, but you can't make a mistake going with the bevo type. Having said that, given the odds it's probably a later production jacket. Personally, I don't have one made up with metal badging so I'd go with that if I were doing it for myself. I've got several pairs of the metal collar badges waiting in the wings

The jacket you have is low enlisted rank, you should go for that instead of NCO or officer. For that you need metal cord for the collar and that is not easy to get for this era. You should be able to find replacement epaulets if you troll German eBay consistently enough. You're looking for ones that are completely plain.

For the collar badges, I'd look for a used pair (they are cheap) that is a bit beat up but not too bad. You want something that looks old. There's very minor differences in manufacturing and some of it is date based. That is a bigger discussion than I have time for at the moment Suffice to say that you do have a lot of options here!

The cost of the replacement pieces might run you EUR 10-15 if you manage to find them pretty much on their own. Often they come with other stuff and so you might have to pay more.

I'd leave the buttons alone, including the one that's oxidized. I'd also advise against cleaning them. Let the buyer do that if he wants to.

If the wool is in good shape and the liner is reasonably intact, you could get EUR 80+ even if you state its history and your restoration. Could go over EUR 100, but the prices for these are (IMHO) inconsistent.

Personally I don't think badging it makes that much of a difference because the badging is fairly easy to get. So you might put EUR 20 into it and wind selling it for only EUR 20 more. Given time and energy to restore, my personal advice is to sell it "as is". The jacket is the thing that's worth money, not the stuff that's missing. Now if this had its label and original badging... that's a different story!

Steve

[J C Gray]

Wow Steve, I really appreciate your very concise answer...this helps me a lot.
I'm not particularly worried about any potential re-sale value at the minute as the jacket doesn't owe me anything and I am looking for a relatively inexpensive project for myself.
I would be happy enough to go with the later woven collar insignia due to the fact that there are definite, visible ghosts of this type, rather than the metal devices, which I personally don't find particularly aesthetic anyway. I had another look at the remnants of the collar piping and it definitely falls within the parameters of 'Altgold', but I would imagine, as you say, that this would be difficult enough to get hold of.
Thanks again for all your help and if I do decide to go ahead with the restoration I will keep you posted.

[Asbjoern]

...if you can tell me the branch colour you`d like to have at least the problem with the collar tabs will be history soon ...

The problem with the cord is that you will not get it in the darkened state it is when it was worn on the jacket for years ... I once got a nice stock of that stuff from an old tailor shop but it is blinky new, shining like polished brass. On pictures my restored jacket looks like it has a silver piping....

Jens

[J C Gray]

Thanks Jens, the only waffenfarbe colour that I have ever been interested in is Goldgelb, so ideally I would like to restore it as Panzeraufklärer.
I'll just have to be patient with the piping and hope that something turns up.

[Collectinsteve]

Glad to help! These old troopers deserve to be treated with respect

Yup, Jens is totally right. The old cord "tarnished" easily. It can be cleaned to some degree, but not entirely. Therefore all old uniforms you see will most likely be darkened. Putting new cord on (I have brand new cord like Jens does) doesn't look right.

It seems the BW recognized this problem because, to me at least, the uniforms from later times don't seem to have the same amount of tarnish on them. And I don't think that is simply a function of them not being quit as old.

Steve

[J C Gray]

This is all that's left on either side...it almost looks like copper wire intertwined with brass.

[RJKG]

Have attached a pic of my June '56 dated affenjacke with pioneer collar patches. What is slightly unusual is that each of the collar patches differ in design.
Judging by the style and colour of the stitching to the reverse of the collar they appear to have been attached contemporaneously, so I'm not sure why they differ in design - possibly just different manufacturers.
At the risk of stating the obvious, have you looked inside the interior jacket pocket for the manufacturers label of your jacket ?

[J C Gray]

[QUOTE=RJKG;7386091]have you looked inside the interior jacket pocket for the manufacturers label of your jacket ?QUOTE]

Just the ghost of where the label once was remains

[Gordon Craig]

John,

Better late than never! Here are some pictures of my affenjacke dated 10/56. The remains of the brass piping on your tunic would indicate that at some time it was worn by an Unterofficier or Oberunteroffizier. It is always possible that the tunic was re-issued to someone of a lower rank who was not authorized to wear any brass (Sr. NCO) or silver (officer) piping. The collar piping would then have to be removed.
Since the makers tag has been removed you could restore this jacket with collar tabs (kragenspiegel) as worn from December of 1956. I've posted pictures of my tunic below that is for a Sanitatsmannschaften (private) in the medical branch. This type of collar tabs, machine embroidered with grey thread was worn for the ranks mannschaften to unteroffizier ohneportepee. Unteroffizier mit portepee wore collar tabs machine embroidered in silver thread.
As for where you might find the shoulder boards that have been cut of? Possibly only on ebay.de or from a member of this forum.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

#2,

[J C Gray]

Thanks for the additional info Gordon...your Sanitatstruppe Jacke looks the part
I managed to get hold of a pair of EM shoulder boards, but when they arrived today they are quite faded compared to the tunic, so not a great match, which is no big deal as they cost buttons...I'll keep looking for a more suitable pair.
I'm also waiting on some tabs coming from Germany and I got my hands on an old BW issue sewing kit, so at least I'll have the proper thread for the restoration.

[Guardian 5]

Looks like you can't keep a "good" idea down. The U.S. Army is actually thinking about reintroducing a "Queen Louise" style jacket.

How does the Irish blessing go, "May the wind be always going up your back, and cooling off your exposed butt crack..." There may have been something lost here from the Gaelic translation....

Run boys run!

TJ

[Collectinsteve]

John,

Looks like your jacket was originally kitted out for an NCO rank as there appears to be the remains of Altgeld cord.

RJKG.

The styles differed over the years, not by manufacturer as far as I know. My guess is someone got it wrong when they put the pair on your jacket. Someone putting tabs on in 1956 would most certainly have been putting on brand new ones and I doubt they would be a mismatched pair as these things came in boxes in something like 50-100 quantities (I've seen some pictures of original boxes somewhere).

Does someone know timeframes for the different styles? I believe the one on the right (left collar) is the older type, but I am not sure about that.

Steve