Unknown Insignia

[uscob]

Maybe somebody can tell me what they are?
1st is a woven Cap Badge,
2nd is a Rank Insignia what came with Hessian Police and Fire Service Badges but I cant find the Colour-combination with silver-Lurex and blue border stripe.
If shown, silver/silver eg.

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Nico,

The bevo badge looks to be Zoll. I have no idea about the other badge, but I'm sure it is post 1976.

Steve

[speedytop]

Hi Nico,

I think, that the badge with the three stars is from the Wasserschutzpolizei Hessen, and it could/should be for a Hauptkommissar.

Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

Nico,

I agree with Steve and Uwi. The woven Customs insignia can be found on M43 style caps and some early visor caps. Here is a rank chart for the correct Hessen polizei time frame.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Agree with others, but would add a few corrections: bevo cap badge is Zoll for "M43" summer field caps, this is later style from 1970s (early caps used only a metal Kokarde like BGS). Blue insignia is Hessen WSP I think, would be from 1966-74 timeframe, post-1976 use shoulderboard ranks in "naval style".

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

My early Zoll visor cap with cap badge similar to the one Nico posted.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Gordon,

your cap has different wreath! The peaked caps like yours have the eagle in wreath and the M43 caps had only Kokarde. The Kokarde in wreath was adopted in 1970s for all Zoll headgear.

Regards
Klaus

[uscob]

Hi Nico,

I think, that the badge with the three stars is from the Wasserschutzpolizei Hessen, and it could/should be for a Hauptkommissar.

Uwe

Was my first Idea too, but the Police ones allway's have the matching colours Borders and not as my ones, Silver Stars and blue Border.

About the Cap Badge, the difference between the Customs Badges and my one is, my has an open wreath and the Customs the bundled wreath.

[Gordon Craig]

Gordon,

your cap has different wreath! The peaked caps like yours have the eagle in wreath and the M43 caps had only Kokarde. The Kokarde in wreath was adopted in 1970s for all Zoll headgear.

Regards
Klaus

Klaus,

I know that my cap has a different wreath. I did not say the two wreaths were the same. I said my cap had a cap badge that was similar. That does not mean that they are the same.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Klaus,

I know that my cap has a different wreath. I did not say the two wreaths were the same. I said my cap had a cap badge that was similar. That does not mean that they are the same.

Regards,

Gordon

I know, that you not say they are same, but that they are similar. But they are not similar other than, that both are bevo (if that is what you meant?). For 2 different Zoll caps of different time periods.

Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

here is the wreath on the Zoll cap, posted by Chiffonier in another thread a few years ago. Hopefully this will settle debate.

[uscob]

here is the wreath on the Zoll cap, posted by Chiffonier in another thread a few years ago. Hopefully this will settle debate.

Thanks, is it dated?

[Klaus1989]

no date, but the label is Alkero of similar style as other caps from 1970s. Have seen period photos of these worn during 1970s (how I know), will see, if I can find them again. The wreath style is connected with the new caps and uniforms introduced 1972 and used in bullion form on other headgear. Prior to 1972 was used the Kokarde and wreath with Bundeswappen for Schirmmütze (metal and bevo versions exist) and metal Kokarde for "M43" cap.

Regards
Klaus