Armoured Corps Uniforms in the early days of the BW

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

A chap who wants to do a model project on an M41 tank made a post on the Writing a book on the BW thread asking for colours on uniforms worn by armoured crews in the 50s. Jens and I made some comments but in my attempt to do so I discovered that there is a lot more for me to learn in this area. Jen answer was much better than mine so I am going to post it here in the hopes of adding to it from others on the forum from pictures and uniforms in their collection. So here goes.


First thing is that the GErman Army used lots of stuff donated/sold by the US Army but within these purchases were no uniforms. Everything was "special", even stuff looking like US stuff (and even WWII GErman) was out of new German production...

"Depending on my archives you have three possibilities to dress your crew

Timeframe 1956 to early 1957: The so called Arbeitsanzug (Working uniform), an olive drab HBT dress, often combined with the blue-grey shirt of the dress uniform. Headdress: The charcoal grey cap in the M43 stile or the olive green cap for the working dress.

Timeframe 1957 - 1960: The splinter camo battle dress in the infantery version was worn by all kinds of armoured crews too with an olive green field shirt worn beneath. Headgear: As before or - as seen in a educational film made 1957 - especially in the recce branch using the M41 - a charcoal grey side cap.

Timeframe 1960 - 1966: The armoured branch was now equipped with olive coveralls specially designed for tank crews, also they were given berets (with a hard inlay as protective cap or without for other duties)

And as the recce guys are always special the often wear a yello scarf ... or no issue boots ...

Lets start with pictures of the first HBT uniform that Jens mentioned. What do you have in your collection?

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Good summary! One thing to add is that the HBT Arbeitsanzug came in lots of different color variations. Some tended more towards brown, some gray, some olive. From what I can see the differences in brand new uniforms probably wasn't very wide, but once the uniforms began to be washed/worn the gaps widened. This is actually pretty typical for military uniforms. Which means if portraying a crew of 5 men for a tank, it might be best to have the colors not be exact matches on each member or even for a single crewman (i.e. mismatched jacket and trousers).

Steve

[Phoenix]

Good summary! One thing to add is that the HBT Arbeitsanzug came in lots of different color variations. Some tended more towards brown, some gray, some olive. From what I can see the differences in brand new uniforms probably wasn't very wide, but once the uniforms began to be washed/worn the gaps widened. This is actually pretty typical for military uniforms. Which means if portraying a crew of 5 men for a tank, it might be best to have the colors not be exact matches on each member or even for a single crewman (i.e. mismatched jacket and trousers).

Steve

Steve,
Is there a predominant color for the panzer troop uniforms in the early 1950s? You mentioned grey, brown, olive. I have found a set of troops wearing the m43 hats that I am intending to use for the build. Is there a predominant color for these uniforms?
Regards,
USA Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Just to start over again. There was no BW in the early 50s. The first uniformed troops were not fielded until mid ti late 1956. The solid coloured brown uniform was only worn from 1955 to 1956. It was similar in colour to the uniforms worn by the U.S. Army at that time. I've posted a picture of two BW tankers and an American instructor on the front of an M47. Although it is in black and white it should give you a good idea of what colour the BW tanker uniforms were at that time. It also gives you an good idea of what the rank stripes looked like in this time period. Steve also mentioned that they wore the M43 style cap in the same material as the uniform or the dark grey wool M43 style cap. Both are pictured here. I've also posted pictures of the cammo uniform worn by tank crews from 1957 on. These guys are probably infantry but it gives you a good idea what the tank crews wore as they wore the same uniforms. Good luck on your project.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Steve,

The first uniformed troops were not fielded until mid ti late 1956. The solid coloured brown uniform was only worn from 1955 to 1956. It was similar in colour to the uniforms worn by the U.S. Army at that time.

The brown/green/olive uniform is the hbt work uniform and that was worn after 1956 into 1960s too. Just not so much as field uniform after Splittertarn introduced.

[Phoenix]

Gordon, Klaus,
Thanks for your guidance. I have found a kit of Waffen SS panzer troops that I think I can convert to the early panzer/infantry uniforms shown in your photos. If you can find a photo of the DML Kit #6014, I am intending on using the driver figure and the crew member above the one in black.
As for color, I have found a "faded OD" that I think might work considering these comments and Steve's comments about fading colors.
Any additional thoughts from anyone??
Regards,
USA Steve

[Collectinsteve]

For fading... I'd say from my experience the colors tend to go towards an olive gray. Here's a pretty good example of well worn, but not overly worn, HBT Arbeitsanzug colors:



http://www.multi-board.com/board/ind...cht/?pageNo=26

Steve

[Phoenix]

For fading... I'd say from my experience the colors tend to go towards an olive gray. Here's a pretty good example of well worn, but not overly worn, HBT Arbeitsanzug colors:



http://www.multi-board.com/board/ind...cht/?pageNo=26

Steve

Steve,
Thanks for the photo! This is the best example I have seen of the olive grey color. I will take it to my model supply store to try matching a paint color. (I am only so so on mixing custom colors.) To make the olive grey, would you recommend putting grey into olive drab or the reverse (OD into grey).

What was the rank of this individual? Officer/NCO/Enlisted? Also, the piping on the shoulder straps - is it white or silver.
Regards,
USA Steve

[Klaus1989]

The rank of Steve's jacket is Stabsunteroffizier, I think. The Tresse is white. Looking at the DML kit 6014, the style of the uniforms is very different. Will take much work and resculpting to make Panzer wrap look like the Bw uniform.

Found this colour photo from the Splittertarn era (1957-60) of Panzer troops. Appear more likely to be colourised, than true colour photo however.




Regards
Klaus

[Proud Kraut]

I achieved good results with a mix of different VALLEJO acrylic colors. I mixed Brown Violet (70.887), U.S. Dark Green (70.893) and Green Grey (70.886) in a ratio of 2:2:1. For different color variations just add more Brown Violet or Green Grey. In addition I painted the figures with "CITADEL Agrax Earthshade". Some highlighting/dry brushing with Green Grey and that's it.

[Phoenix]

Klaus,
From my research, the rank of Stabsunteroffizier is indicated by the shoulder tab. With this in mind, what do the two stripes on the sleeve indicate?
Regards,
USA Steve

[Klaus1989]

Stabsunteroffizier is the sleeve rank, which was worn in 1950s. I thought, that shoulderboard rank for junior NCOs came later around 1962, but Steve can probably say more.

[speedytop]

Hi Steve,

the shoulder tab (Borte) indicates, that it is a NCO.

One (cloth) chevron say, it is an "Unteroffizier", two chevrons say, it is a "Stabsunteroffizier", a (metal) chevron on the shoulder tab say, it is a "Feldwebel", and so on.

Uwe

[Phoenix]

Hi Steve,

the shoulder tab (Borte) indicates, that it is a NCO.

One (cloth) chevron say, it is an "Unteroffizier", two chevrons say, it is a "Stabsunteroffizier", a (metal) chevron on the shoulder tab say, it is a "Feldwebel", and so on.

Uwe

Thanks Uwe - this help for my driver.

What would the insignia be for the BW equivalent of a US 2nd lieutenant (single gold bar)? Would like to make the tank commander an officer. As the M41s were used in a recon role, would the waffenfarbe be gold or pink?

A question for all - do BW tankers carry side arms, pistol or small machine gun like the US M3 "grease gun"? The commander will be a full figure (driver is only the upper torso) so would need to properly equip him.

Regards to all,
US Steve

[Phoenix]

Gordon,
I have found a fairly good photo of what looks like early BW tank troops. Do you have an email address I can send this photo to for you to post for the other thread readers to review? I will send you a list of questions I have for this photo.
Steve Payne
IPMS 47035
badgerthree@yahoo.com