"m59 fj"

[Reibert-Austria]

Hi, mates !

Read, that this pattern Fallschirmjäger pot, (liner manufactured by Schuberth company), was introduced in August 1961 in the Bundeswehr.
Otherwise, I heard, this pattern helmet was delivered not until 1971 to the Bundeswehr …

There´re also some different designations for this pattern helmet …
For example: "FJ59 BF", "M 1A1 LL", "M59FJ", even, "M 1971" !

How long this helmet was in use in the BW ?
Read, until 1998 ! ...
But, I cannot believe that, because the "Gefechtshelm M92" was introduced in 1992 actually ...

As far as I know, such helmets also were in use in Dutch Counterterrorist Forces.

Further informations appreciated !

Thx. in advance,
R.

[Reibert-Austria]

2.):

[Reibert-Austria]

3.):

[Klaus1989]

Only official designation for Bw FJ helmets, that I have heard, is "Stahlhelm 1A1 Luftlandetruppen". M1971 is Belgian designation for this helmet, if I remember. Some collectors confuse the Bw and Belgian models. Belgian paratroopers used these until relatively recently. Thought, that the FJ helmets were introduced 1961, so FJ59 would be strange. Not heard of FJ59 term, only FJ60 for liner in the "Schwedenhelm".

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Reibert,

All of the designations you listed for the Luftlandetruppe have been given by a variety of collectors. None are actually correct. The helmet for the LLTruppe was developed from the M1 A 1 but that designation was not used in the BW. It was simply called the Helm, Stahl-Luftlandetruppe when shipped from the factory and I believe simply called the Stahlhelm LLTruppe within the BW. There is extensive coverage of the development of this helmet in Ludwig Baer's book "Von Stahlhelm zum Gefechthelm" band 2 (1919-1994). Below are some pictures of the shipping labels used on the boxes the BW helmets were shipped in.
The helmets began their trials in early 1961 when 1000 were ordered and sent to units for trial as follows;
1. LL-Schule Altenstadt/Schogau 100;
2. FschJgBtl 251 Boblingen 730;
3. FschPiKp 250 Calw/Wur 170;

In December of 1961 17,000 helmets of this type were ordered for supply to the LLTruppe.
As to how long they were worn I am uncertain. I haven't researched that area yet.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

As to how long they were worn I am uncertain. I haven't researched that area yet.

Gordon,
they were worn into the early/mid 90s, until replaced with the Gefechtshelm.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

I would say yes. Baer says in his book that the BWB issued an order on 8 July 1987 that no more Stahlhelm LLTruppe were to be made. That the new G Helme would be worn in the future by the LLTruppe. Since the design of the G Helme wasn't completed until approximately 1992 it would seem reasonable to assume that the Stahlhelm LLTruppe would have been worn into the 90s.

Regards,

Gordon

[bolo]

M61 Luftlandetruppe

since the BW did order the M61 Stahlhelm back in 1961

I think the correct name is the West German M61 LLTRUPPE Stahlhelm

since these were already in use way before 1971

[Gordon Craig]

Bolo,

Thanks for your thoughts. We are looking for the name of this helmet as used in the BW not a name assigned by a collector so I must disagree with you. Helmets have never been referred by year designation in the German armed forces.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Designations are tricky. Often we do not know the official designations, yet we need a common language when discussing these things so we don't have to explain it in "long hand". Worse, many items have no official designation and rarely are there official designations for sub variants. So collectors are obligated to invent something to represent specific pieces.

In this case it seems that the correct helmet designation is "Stahlhelm LLTruppe". Since this is the only helmet specifically made for them that bears this name, there's no reason to try and classify it with a generic collector "M" designation since there's no other Luftlande helmet to be confused with (the earlier WW2 style is a can of worms!).

IMHO going with a generic "M" designation based on year has its place for collector shorthand. However, personally I think it is inadvisable to make it sound anything other than generic because it could then be confused with an official designation. For example, calling it "M61 Luftlande helmet" or "M61 Airborne Helmet" looks generic, calling it "M61 LLTRUPPE Stahlhelm" blurs the line a little too much. At least in my opinion

Steve

[hoover]

We still used them in 1998 at the Luftlandeschule in ALtenstadt.

The reason is simple: The straps and lining of the new Aramid-Gefechtshelm were not safer for jumping, so they had to develop the Sprunggefechtshelm. And this new jump helmet was introduced to the Fallschirmjäger units first, and then to the school.

[Gordon Craig]

Hoover,

That is just the comment I was hoping for. I have never been able to find a G helme identified as a specific para helmet. Do you have a picture of the liner in one of these Sprunggefechtshelm. You see lots of G helme offered as KSK helmets but I don't know if these are the same as the BW paras wore. Perhaps you can help me here.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Gordon,
they appear on ebay.de occasionally. Found some photos from one that sold for EUR 169 couple months ago. The shape is distinctive from the "normal" Gefechtshelm. I think, that the Schuberth factory designation is "Schuberth Airborne 828".





Regards
Klaus