BGS 76mm Salidin Shell Casing

[Marksharky]

A number of years ago I had a long correspondence with a 1960's era, BGS veteran in Germany. I was researching the use of BGS service bicycles and as a result, we ending up maintaining a friendship over the years. A while back, he decided that many of his old BGS service mementos needed a good home and he sent them to me. Mixed in with the "shipment", was this 76mm shell casing.

The shell was originally used in, and fired from, a Bundesgrenzschutz, Salidin armored car. It is the only one like it that I have seen, and the amazing thing is that it has a confirmed connection to actual BGS usage.

There is an inked-stenciled date on the side of the shell that appears to indicate 1967. There is also a British Broad Arrow stamp on the bottom that would seem to indicate that the British were supplying the ammunition. I believe the BGS Salidin's were used from 1966-1974.

If anyone has any additional information about these rounds, or their BGS use, I would love to hear about it!

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[Marksharky]

Salidin Photos

Hee are a couple of photos of the Salidin's in service with the Bundesgrenzschutz:

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[Gordon Craig]

Marksharky,

Interesting research idea.

Here is what I was able to find on the Saladin armament.


Armament consisted of a 76 mm L5A1 quick-firing gun and two machine guns. Stowage for 43 rounds of ammunition was provided in the hull.

and,

Main armament of the Saladin consists of a Royal Ordnance 76 mm L5A1 gun with a vertical sliding breech block and a hydro-spring recoil mechanism. A 7.62 mm (0.30) machine gun model M1919A4(L3A3/ L3A4) is mounted coaxially to the left of the main armament and a similar anti-aircraft weapon is mounted on the right of the commander's hatch. Six 66 mm smoke grenade dischargers lilted on either side of the turret are electrically fired from within the vehicle. The 76 mm gun fires the following types of ammunition: canister, HESH, HE, HE/PRAC, SH/P, smoke/BE and illuminating.

The picture is from Auctions America sale site and appears to show the main gunners seat from a Saladin they have for sale. I see a Sarasin running around the city from time to time but no Saladins.

The markings on your shell casing appears to be for an HE round but that is just a guess on my part.

Regards,

Gordon

[Marksharky]

Thanks for the photo of the Salidin interior. I would love to get that Salidin that's up for auction! It would really round out my BGS collection

I am hoping that there are a few other BGS collectors out there on the forum that may have some old "ordinance" to share.......

[Gordon Craig]

Marksharky,

I've always wanted a military vehicle but that might be the last straw for my wife!

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Marksharky,

There doesn't seem to be much on the net re ordnance used by the BGS and I am not sure if anything on this page will be of interest but it does show some equipment in use that you could research for ordnance used in the BGS.

Regards,

Gordon




http://www.bgs13-coburg1959.de/Kapp/...engerE4te.html

[Klaus1989]

Not think, that you will find too many others with BGS ordinance. Any used shells are very hard to find and hard to obtain. In my collection is only empty flare cartridges and training grenade.

During early years, only armoured vehicle was M8, which BGS version only had MG. As first with heavier weapons MOWAG SW2 had 20 mm canon in addition to MG, but was introduced after 1963. Saladin (SW3) was not intended as main armour for BGS, but to supplement SW1 (unarmed) and SW2.

Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

Looked through some of my photos, because I knew I had some of M8 and found one from 1954 with canon mounted. Apparently, some of M8 received 20 mm canon also, I think after mid 1950s. Original US version had 37 mm canon. If anyone interested, I could scan the photos later.

Regards
Klaus

[Marksharky]

It would be great to see your empty flare cartridges. I am putting the finishing touches on my P2 BGS flare gun with cartridge pouch and the different model holsters.

Is the training grenade marked as BGS, or does it have the standard, generic ordinance markings?
I have one of the storage tubes for the bazooka rounds that the BGS used in the 1960's. I was told that it was from the BGS, but there are no unique markings on it designating it as BGS. The storage tube is also from a veteran. I will pull the tube out and take a few photos of it tomorrow.

[Marksharky]

Klaus,
Any scans of photos that you have would be wonderful to see!

[Klaus1989]

The 26,5 mm flare cartridges are posted in another thread about my Heym flare pistol. The grenade is practice stick grenade (there is one in link, that Gordon posted, if you look closely at photo of man with Blindicide). Why BGS had practice stick grenades and no real ones is not known. It is only marked with maker and date (1957, if I remember).

The cardboard tubes were used for several rocket-propelled weapons and by Bw (Energa, Blindicide, others in Bw). Not sure, which you mean? I have seen Energa training rounds for sale, but not have any in my collection.

Regards
Klaus

[Marksharky]

Here is my rocket storage tube. It is for the 101mm Blindicide (rocket launcher-bazooka), and is dated 1964. I am not certain of the years that this weapon was used, but I believe it was put in BGS service around 1960.

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[Marksharky]

Here are a couple of historic photos of the 101mm Blindicide in BGS action.

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[Klaus1989]

Ok, I was little confused, because you said "bazooka". Yours is for training round for Blindicide, as you mentioned. The Bazooka was first anti-tank weapon of BGS until Blinidicide ("Panzerabwehrgerät 101 mm" is official German name). I think it was M20A1B1 version, as this is what Bw had. Blindicide was trialled with BGS units 1958-60, then fully introduced 1960/61. From what I know, was used until ca. 1992 and then removed from inventory as part of demilitarisation of BGS after Cold War. Energa grenades have similar tubes, but different size.

Regards
Klaus

[Marksharky]

Thanks for the additional information about the Blindicide ! Interesting that it stayed in service for so many years. The only photos that I seem to find showing it in BGS service are from the 1960's.
Now I need to find one of the training rounds to go in the tube!