Modern BW European kit?

[TheCount]

Hey,

Im trying to put together an ultramodern Bundeswehr force for miniature wargaming and need advice on what exactly the troops wear in a european setting and perhaps as well for afghanistan.

From recent pictures i can source there seems be almost nothing consistent with the webbing and uniform differing quite alot,

There is types like this, http://www.flickr.com/photos/78442963@N06/9599542584 with the "shoulder pads" like part of the webbing? That looks similar to what they wore in the late 90's early 2000's, but the main webbing looks completely different, as you can in the background of that picture we have a soldier with a different set up more "traditional" modern kit with a vest over combat jacket,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78442963@N06/11796800043 Can see a mix of that here and also use of scarfs/mask's, is this now current kit for the BW or are these a specific type of troop?

Here we can see them wearing a longer smock/jacket http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-...eryV9-tcso.jpg (best picture i can find) would this be worn in a European like setting or only for a desert theater?

Basically what im asking is what exactly is the current uniform/kit set up lol, is it a variation of all shown or do certain types of infantry wear different kinds?

I'll be making a Panzergrenadier squad and a regular army squad so will they basically look more or less the same these days or will one have a distinctive look over the other?

Any help here would be much appreciated, big fan of German military equipment they have always had their own distinctive look and feel to things and that imo, is fantastic, makes a fascinating force to try and replicate.

[Proud Kraut]

Good question, that can't be answered easily. Many different kits are in use in the Bw today. Pending on branch and on the fact, that privat purchased equipment is widely used as well, it's really hard to tell.

If you are looking for the latest officially issued kits search for "IdZ" stuff. IdZ stands for "Infanterist der Zukunft" (Infantrymen of the future) and is an official programm that will be released for about 1000 soldiers. Maybe this Wiki article gives you a first impression and some further hints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IdZ

Check the article's German language edition for the designation of the different IdZ components.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanterist_der_Zukunft

[Gordon Craig]

TheCount,

As is mentioned above, there is no 100% standard for combat dress in the BW. It varies greatly form unit to unit and from individual to individual. Especially the way things were worn in Afghanistan.
Face coverings are not worn as a general mode of dress in the BW but appear to common is special forces units.
If you want to create something with uniformity, and that sounds like what you are after, I suggest that you pick a specific unit and research it extensively. This could cover what they looked like in Germany and Afghanistan.
You mentioned "ultra-modern" so Proud Kraut suggested "Infanterist der Zukunft" (Infantrymen of the future) as an area of research. There is some doubt that this program will go ahead due to cost and the changing role of the BW. But if you are really interested in "Infanterist der Zukunft" (Infantrymen of the future) rather than what is currently worn in the field this is the way to go.

Regards,

Gordon

[TheCount]

Cheers for the replies lads,

As for the IdZ, i've looked it up before, many of the soldiers seem to be using what is now outdated kit and much of it has already been in use for some time which complicates things anymore, if they wear a mix match of things that i suppose simplifies it to whatever i prefer,

I guess the main question is have their retired the distinctive flak jackets which have the "shoulder pads" or not as otherwise they seem to just wear various types of assault vests and combat smocks.

Basically i want what they wear as of now, but i also dont want to model a force only to have to re-do it next year with new equipment if ya get me lol

[Collectinsteve]

Best thing to do is look at recent pics of Afghanistan. That's pretty much what you'd see in a temperate environment, but in 5 color Flecktarn instead of 3 color.

As for body armor, the older type (which are cheap and readily available in surplus shops) is long since out of service. It is actually only a flak vest, not hardened body armor capable of stopping bullets. Today's soldiers tend to wear a style of body armor referred to as "plate carriers". They are simple affairs that hold hard plates of armor in various parts of the torso. Most are configurable to include additional armor for sides, shoulders, and even upper arms in some cases. In Afghanistan the added protection has to be considered against weight and heat retention.

Here's a summary of body armor...

Flak vest(out of service):


Bristol body armor with optional crotch plate in the down position (officially out of service, I think):


Current IdZ plate carrier with optional shoulder protection and optional crotch protection in the up position:


Current IdZ plate carrier with some kit attached, no extra protection affixed, but the optional shoulder and neck configuration shown lying in front of it:


Current IdZ plate carrier with optional crotch protection, no shoulder protection:


New IdZ Schutzwest that goes over a plate carrier or is worn separately:


Note that the optional shoulder, crotch, and neck protection are "soft inserts" and are good only against fragmentation. It's the same sort of stuff used in the original flak vest.


Steve

[TheCount]

Best thing to do is look at recent pics of Afghanistan. That's pretty much what you'd see in a temperate environment, but in 5 color Flecktarn instead of 3 color.

As for body armor, the older type (which are cheap and readily available in surplus shops) is long since out of service. It is actually only a flak vest, not hardened body armor capable of stopping bullets. Today's soldiers tend to wear a style of body armor referred to as "plate carriers". They are simple affairs that hold hard plates of armor in various parts of the torso. Most are configurable to include additional armor for sides, shoulders, and even upper arms in some cases. In Afghanistan the added protection has to be considered against weight and heat retention.

Here's a summary of body armor...

Flak vest(out of service):


Bristol body armor with optional crotch plate in the down position (officially out of service, I think):


Current IdZ plate carrier with optional shoulder protection and optional crotch protection in the up position:


Current IdZ plate carrier with some kit attached, no extra protection affixed, but the optional shoulder and neck configuration shown lying in front of it:


Current IdZ plate carrier with optional crotch protection, no shoulder protection:


New IdZ Schutzwest that goes over a plate carrier or is worn separately:


Note that the optional shoulder, crotch, and neck protection are "soft inserts" and are good only against fragmentation. It's the same sort of stuff used in the original flak vest.


Steve

Thank you very much mate, this is exactly the kind of thing i needed to get a rough idea of what everything was, pics are much appreciated,

I've seen alot of these mixed in Afghanistan as well as training/promotional shots i've seen, so its safe to say these would be mixed based on the individual and squad level and not based on the type of infantry, I.e. panzer grenadier/para etc.

If so it will make my jobs alot easier and more interesting.

Cheers.

[Gordon Craig]

Thank you very much mate, this is exactly the kind of thing i needed to get a rough idea of what everything was, pics are much appreciated,

I've seen alot of these mixed in Afghanistan as well as training/promotional shots i've seen, so its safe to say these would be mixed based on the individual and squad level and not based on the type of infantry, I.e. panzer grenadier/para etc.

If so it will make my jobs alot easier and more interesting.

Cheers.

Only true to a certain extent. der Speiss still rules the roost and his men and women can only drift so far from the regs. As you say, some mixed modes of dress at the squad level. Now that the BW is out of Afghanistan I am sure you will see more standardization. War zones always breed a more relaxed atmosphere. For how the BW looked on deployment to NATO related ones, I'd look at photos from KFOR. I think that you will notice a lot more conformity of dress in the field there than was evident in Afghanistan.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Thank you very much mate, this is exactly the kind of thing i needed to get a rough idea of what everything was, pics are much appreciated,

I've seen alot of these mixed in Afghanistan as well as training/promotional shots i've seen, so its safe to say these would be mixed based on the individual and squad level and not based on the type of infantry, I.e. panzer grenadier/para etc.

If so it will make my jobs alot easier and more interesting.

Cheers.

You're quite welcome!

Adding to what Gordon just said, it is more likely that a unit will conform to the same general appearance than to all look different. You might see some predictable variations, like the MG4 gunner perhaps having a different configuration than a rifleman. Especially with kit. The big differences will be based on function. A driver neither needs nor can easily drive with a crotch flap, for example. He also might find the shoulder and neck armor constrictive. Generally vehicle crews don't have much, if anything, other than a pistol on them and no other kit. So on and so forth.

Back to your question about the smocks you linked to. Those are for cooler weather. Underneath is a combat shirt of some sort which would be worn outside of the smock under warmer conditions.

Currently the Bundeswehr has three standard and three special uniforms as normal kit for infantry. The three standard types are based on the first issue uniform from 1991. One is almost identical to the 1991 Temperate type and two (Desert and Tropical) are outwardly the same. The latter differ in the cloth type, no zipper in front jacket, and mesh under the armpits. They also tend to have anti-insect treatment.

The special uniforms were originally designated for special forces units, but have seen wide spread use in Afghanistan by a wider array of units. It consists of trousers with large exposed buttons, integrated kneepads, and a host of other differences from the standard type. The combat jacket is also very different from standard issue with zippered pockets on the arms and other major differences. These come in three types for Temperate, Tropical (ripstop), and Desert.

There are also under armor combat shirts which have camouflage sleeves and a breathable single color torso. I do not know what official kit is as there are a lot of commercial types in use as far as I know.

Each of the two uniform types has a smock (or Parka in German terminology). The standard type comes in two types; Temperate/Tropical and Desert. The special type comes in three types; Temperate, Tropical (ripstop), and Desert.

That covers the most important parts of basic kit.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

An interesting list of modern kit for the BW. Thanks for doing it.

Regards,

Gordon

[uscob]

Also waiting for an IDZ. Allready have the Pouches here but not the rest.
Many Years ago I had the first Style Bristols they used in Kosovo.
British DPM but with German -12- NSN.

[Klaus1989]

If you want to portray Bw in Europe, not sure, that what Bw wear in Afghanistan is good reference. Much more private purchase kit and equipped with more modern equipment. In Germany, is still some older equipment worn, when I remember correctly. At least until recently (probably still?), could see the older 90s load-bearing system without vest during some types of trainings.

And then one see things like this from Afghanistan, that not seen in Europe. Forget source, but is supposed to be in field around 2010. The front 2 soldiers appear to wear the parka in Wüstentarn without vests and some type of unknown load-bearing system. Rear man appear to have some type of flak vest?



Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

I see IdZ vests on eBay every so often. Not surprisingly they sell for more than I want to pay

I forgot to mention that I am not sure the ripstop (Tropical) version of the "special forces" uniform is still in production or being issued. In fact, I am not very clear on current regulations about this uniform in general. Hopefully someone can be more specific about when the uniform can be officially worn.

As Klaus says, in Afghanistan it's pretty much anything goes! A few years ago I purchased a bunch of items from the same soldier. It was a mix of issued and non-issued items. I was told the non-issue trousers were popular because the cloth was tougher (I forget the mix).

Steve

[uscob]

Came today