Early Beretta-MP Pouch...or not?

[Klaus1989]

I post earlier this thread in international forum, but no responses, so I decide to risk and buy this interesting pouch to inspect, as it not cost much. Seller claimed it was postwar German. My question is, is this a rare 1st model magazine pouch for the MP1 (Beretta MP)? Before use of the MP40 style pouches, an earlier "Italian style" pouch used, which I had assumed was Italian.

This is only photo, that I have found (and a collector's vague description from somewhere), from 1953. I have photo in my collection of the later "MP40" style pouches from 1954, so this model not used long.



This is obviously a left pouch of some sort. The known later type pouches made as pairs, but often only right pouch worn. Has ring to secure to right pouch, like wartime. Interesting is a pouch for maybe stripper clips or cleaning kit on wearer's inside, not outside.



The shoulderstrap is interesting, but not seem very typical for German construction. This would allow to wear on belt or without. No d-rings for y-straps, unless attach to one for the shoulderstrap, but y-straps not widely worn at first.



Comparision with 2nd model MP1 pouch (this is NOT the common BGS pouches for MP5/MPL!). Size and shape of cells is same. Would fit same magazines.



Stitching and construction is similar. The square reinforcement on bottom of cells for is noticed feature.





Any ideas to the ID of this pouch, if even West German?

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting! I did some research into this type a while ago, either here or elsewhere, but now forget what I learned

It could very well be what you think it is.

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Mystery solved! I had almost given the hope up, but then happened to read the Vietnam subforum here (which I almost never do) and saw similar pouch. Apparently such unmarked pouches for 9 mm magazines (mostly for M3/M3A1 and kpist m/45) were procured by Americans in early Vietnam War era for advisors, special forces and local irregulars. It is unknown, which country made them. In this condition not common, but still surprised, that I sold it for over USD 100 on ebay!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=716201&page=3

So unfornately not West German. The shape, flap and position on belt always seemed not to match to me. So maybe my original theory is right - pouch could be copy of half of double Italian Beretta mag pouch, either Italian export version with the early Beretta shipments or BRD made.

Something like split version of pouch here:
http://wehrmacht-awards.com/FORUMS/s...d.php?t=632099

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

That is interesting information!

Well, the construction seems to be consistent with German manufacturing. The design is influenced by German pouches, not American style. This makes me suspect they were made in Germany. Another reason to suspect this is at least some of the early advisors in Vietnam came from advisor units based in Germany. I have a BW Splittertarn uniform that was badged for a US Army Captain who was in Germany in the early 1960s advising German units before he went to Vietnam (IIRC 1966).

Steve

[Klaus1989]

It seem some European country is thought to be likely source, but without markings is almost impossible to determine. BRD is definitely a possibility. The black coated brass fittings and sloppy stitching/construction not seem so German, but who know?

I have seen photo on internet of 1950s or 60s US soldier in splittertarn with the shaped field cap, but was without information about where or when.

Regards
Klaus