Bundesgrenszschutz - your questions

[compressore]

Hi,

my father served in the BGS from 1954 until 2000.
On the occasion of Christmas and new year he will vist me for a couple of weeks.
If there are any BGS related questions, maybe you want to post it and I can try to get his memory activated. I can not promise that he has answers on everything but maybe a good opportunity.
Regards
Christian

[SCHUPO]

Christian,

Thnaks for your offer to pick your father's memory. I would be interested to know how common, or uncommon, it was for BGS members to wear the 57er awards either as a ribbon bar or a badge? Was it encouraged or discouraged to do so?

I would also be interested to know if he observed this paractice of wearing 57er awards and BUND sport badges among the regular Polizei during his BGS service?

Thanks, George

[Gordon Craig]

compressore,

Thanks for your kind offer. Since he served in the early years I am sure he could answer some long standing questions. I have one related to one of SCHPOs. Several 57 awards are worn on a black ribbon. From time-to-time you see these same awards on dark green ribbons. I have been told these were BGS ribbon bars but no one has been able to provide me with proof of these statements. So my question would be; Were ribbon bars with 57 devices on them (such as the WWII wound badge) mounted on green cloth worn by members of the BGS.

Regards,

Gordon

[speedytop]

Hi Gordon,

"From time-to-time you see these same awards on dark green ribbons. I have been told these were BGS ribbon bars but no one has been able to provide me with proof of these statements."

There is a proof on an old "Bänderkarte":



Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Thanks. That is exactly the sort of thnig that I have been looking for.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

What a great opportunity! Heh... how much time do you want to spend talking about this with your father?

I would like to know more about the use of camouflage and non camouflage Einsatzanzug in the field for the different periods of time. I have some general knowledge about this form other BGS veterans, but I'm wondering how this changed over time. Whatever he can remember would be great to have!

Did he every see the camouflage smocks in use? This is not the jacket with button on hood, but the pull over type with attached hood made around 1958. Any memories, stories, dates, etc. about these would be great.

Any memories of the two piece reversible Splittertarn uniform being worn? If so, when and under what circumstances?

How common was the wearing of camouflage uniforms during the years 1963-1967? I ask because this is a period of time when the uniforms were apparently not manufactured (production started again in 1967).

I have a set of MP38/40 magazine pouches that were made after the war for BGS, but as far as anybody here knows the BGS never used MP38/40, on the Beretta and not with pouches like the ones I have. Does he have any memories of the MP38/40 being considered for use or actually used in the very early days?

Hmmm... any stories about the incorporation of DDR Grenztruppen into BGS would be wonderful to hear, especially as it relates to uniforms.

Actually, I think maybe you should just talk to your father for a week solid and maybe that will answer 1/2 the questions I have! Especially the ones I didn't know to ask

Steve

[compressore]

Hi Collectinsteve,

he will arrive next week and stays for 4 weeks. So enough time to talk ;-)
I am sure he can answer most weapon related questions (small arms) as he spend nearly all his duty in the weaponary section.

If you can post a picture of the pouches, that would be great.
Give me some days until he will arrive.
Regards
Christian

[Collectinsteve]

It is quite an opportunity to have some of the obscure "old timer" questions answered. Like most organizations, many things can only be answered by someone right there at a specific time. Since nobody bothers to take notes about what laces were used on which boots... we collectors are always at a disadvantage

Here is a thread containing pictures of the pouches:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=676947

Thanks!

Steve

[compressore]

57'er

Hi,
57er badges were not worn and as my father said, not allowed in the early times as a connection between the former Wehrmacht and the BGS was not encouraged.
The sports badge was reulary worn as well as a badge for staff members who was deployed during the Hamburg flood 1962.

Regards
Christian

Christian,

Thnaks for your offer to pick your father's memory. I would be interested to know how common, or uncommon, it was for BGS members to wear the 57er awards either as a ribbon bar or a badge? Was it encouraged or discouraged to do so?

I would also be interested to know if he observed this paractice of wearing 57er awards and BUND sport badges among the regular Polizei during his BGS service?

Thanks, George

[compressore]

Mp38/mp40

Hi,

no MP38/MP40 were in use, only the Beretta until the H&K MP5 was introduced.
Regards
Christian

[QUOTE=Collectinsteve;6191725]


I have a set of MP38/40 magazine pouches that were made after the war for BGS, but as far as anybody here knows the BGS never used MP38/40, on the Beretta and not with pouches like the ones I have. Does he have any memories of the MP38/40 being considered for use or actually used in the very early days?

[compressore]

Camo

Hi,

there were no smocks in use. The only "smock" kind were the tent-squares (Zeltbahn) wich could be pulled over.
As far as he remebers, there was only one pattern of camo introduced. There was a jacked with hood, pants, field cap and a scarf.
The BGS armpatch was worn as well as shoulder-boards.
Also no winter camo existed (but he said that there were also BGS mountain sections, and for them he does not know)

Until the early 60ties, those camo uniforms were not existent, afterwards worn commonly without a break until the reoganisation of the BGS

What a great opportunity! Heh... how much time do you want to spend talking about this with your father?

I would like to know more about the use of camouflage and non camouflage Einsatzanzug in the field for the different periods of time. I have some general knowledge about this form other BGS veterans, but I'm wondering how this changed over time. Whatever he can remember would be great to have!

Did he every see the camouflage smocks in use? This is not the jacket with button on hood, but the pull over type with attached hood made around 1958. Any memories, stories, dates, etc. about these would be great.

Any memories of the two piece reversible Splittertarn uniform being worn? If so, when and under what circumstances?

How common was the wearing of camouflage uniforms during the years 1963-1967? I ask because this is a period of time when the uniforms were apparently not manufactured (production started again in 1967).

I have a set of MP38/40 magazine pouches that were made after the war for BGS, but as far as anybody here knows the BGS never used MP38/40, on the Beretta and not with pouches like the ones I have. Does he have any memories of the MP38/40 being considered for use or actually used in the very early days?

Hmmm... any stories about the incorporation of DDR Grenztruppen into BGS would be wonderful to hear, especially as it relates to uniforms.

Actually, I think maybe you should just talk to your father for a week solid and maybe that will answer 1/2 the questions I have! Especially the ones I didn't know to ask

Steve

[SCHUPO]

Christian,

Please thank your father for allowing us to pick through his memory of his time in service. I rather thought that connections between the Wehrmacht and BGS early on were not encouraged but it is great to hear it from the horse's mouth as we say.

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks for the answers! Both to you and to your father They nicely confirm what I've learned from other sources.

It seems that the BGS produced enough camouflage uniforms by 1962 to last until 1967. Because he says there was no interruption of use, but there is definitely an interruption of production dates. The other theory was that for a short period of time camouflage uniforms were not actively worn in the mid 1960s. But your father's recollection helps discredit that theory and endorse the other one.

For sure the other camouflage uniforms I asked about exist (pictures and surviving examples). But his not remembering them confirms other information that suggests they were made in small numbers for experimentation purposes. If they were more common than that your father would remember them. And if he did see one he probably would know it was experimental.

One follow up question. I have read that for BGS units patrolling the border with DDR (i.e. walking within sight of DDR GT) did not wear the camouflage uniform. Instead they wore a dark blue/gray uniform that is almost the same design as the camouflage one (I have two versions, 1963 and 1965). Does he remember the use of the non-camouflage uniform at all? And was it worn as I just said, or is this information inaccurate?

Thanks!!

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

compressore,

Some more questions for your father.
First on the Bergmutze; the picture below shows this hat with only a cockade in the state colours worn on it. During what time frame was the Bergmutze worn with only the cockade? What colour were the buttons on the Bergmutze when worn with the cockade? Was the bergmutze worn by enlisted men, officers and General rank equivalent? If so, what colour buttons were worn by officers and Generals? Did the enlisted men wear a metal cockade and the officers an embroidered one such as the one worn by the BW?
My reason for asking is that I have a Bergmutze with gold buttons but the cap badge and sweat shield are missing. I need to find out what kind of cap badge should be on it. I also have a Bermutze with old silver buttons and an old silver BGS star badge on it so I need to know what sort of cap badge officers and Generals wore then enlisted men wore this type of cap badge.
Plus, do either of you know where I can get a wall chart on the BGS similar to the one in the photo below.

Regards,

Gordon