BundesLuftwaffe 4 pocket uniforms

[NickG]

Did the West German airforce ever use this type of internal angled skirt pocket?
or always the external bottom pockets just like the WW2 Luftwaffe?

In other words could this be a West German conversion? or custom WW2 job?

[NickG]

Here Hartman and Barkhorn in the newly created BundesLuftwaffe (with their cufftitles pinned on) and the pockets are the standard external box pockets...
Just like war time Luftwaffe... The pocket flaps are curved (batwing style) which was typical Bundesluft but war time both
straight flapped (text book LW) and also batwing pocket flaps were observed...so that is not an indicator.
Post war tunics do have a smaller collar/lapel area because the Bundes tabs are narrower...another clue...

Thougfhts?

[Asbjoern]

I never swa a garment like this in BW circumstance. The only type of tunic with angled pockets are the two pocket tunics an both of them don`t have a flap on their pockets. Also none has french cuffs.
To define this jacket its a mixture of the four pocket tunic and the two pocket tunic invented in 1962... but converting one of these into a jacket like yours would not be possible without leaving any trace ...

Jens

[NickG]

In this thread on a dubious LW uniform (same cut)
somebody states that such a pattern is post war West German Polizei??? (but aren't those green?)
(so definitely not something the Bundesluft used...with this style pockets!)


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=west+german



.

[Asbjoern]

Police is a possible clue as some state police wore blue uniforms for some time. Also custom has blue uniforms... everything possible, maybe Gordon or one of the off the others has more information as they are deeper in this contend. The jacket in the other thread is different ... the bottom pockets are straight not angeled as o this one...

Jens

[NickG]

These 2 LW uniforms were both shown on other threads and deemed to be West German rebuilds...Note bottom pockets...
but the angle is different than mine...

[NickG]

Mine again...
it is also much longer in cut which to me indicates from an earlier (less modern) time period...like prewar LW?

[SprogCollector]

I believe eisenbahn uniforms used this style of lower pocket in the 1950s/60s.

[NickG]

I believe eisenbahn uniforms used this style of lower pocket in the 1950s/60s.

True! Same pockets! but Eisenbahn/Reichsbahn and later Bundesbahn all had distinctly darker blue uniforms...not this LW blue/gray color...Also the rail uniforms had golden/yellow trim with golden buttons...Mine with silver piping and silver pebbled buttons originally applied...Note difference !

[SprogCollector]

Berlin Polizei and Bayern Feuerwehr both wore blue-grey uniforms in the postwar years. I'm not sure of the jacket patterns used by either of these organizations.

Your photo in post#1 appears to show uniform fabric with a felt-like texture (doeskin?) rather than the gabardine used for Bundeswehr uniforms.

[Gordon Craig]

Did the West German airforce ever use this type of internal angled skirt pocket?
or always the external bottom pockets just like the WW2 Luftwaffe?

In other words could this be a West German conversion? or custom WW2 job?

NickG,

No they did not. They were always external patch pockets with external pleats. This is also true for the other organizations mentioned in this thread. I have never seen a German tunic like this in either the TR era or in the BW. This is totally someones fantasy piece in my opinion.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

I agree with Gordon that the BW issued jackets were always 4 external pleated pockets, no slanting. I've never seen a tunic like this in BRD service as far as I can remember. However, there are some Polizei uniforms that have internal lower pockets. Niedersachsen seems to be the most long lived, but I've found pics of older S-H and BEPO uniforms like this as well. Though I doubt someone found a mint condition 1940s/1950s Polizei tunic to modify, so I think we can rule that out.

I also agree with Jens that it's not possible to make a conversion without there being very obvious signs. Plus, why spend all that time and money modifying something to be completely historically inaccurate? The only slant pocket LW tunics I'm aware of are 2 pocket type. Similar for BRD items, such as BW 2 pocket dress tunics.

This does look to be post war of some sort, but I can't think of what it might be. Remember that BRD uniforms have 4 buttons for the front while Third Reich have 5, so right there someone should be suspicious. It's possible it could be something like Austrian police or another nation's non-military forces. There are a few that like this style of tunic.

In conclusion, I am not confident about what the tunic (original post) is, but I'm sure it is not Third Reich or earlier.

Steve

[NickG]

Thanks for the input guys! Here some close ups of the material!
Definately ribbed gabardine cloth and similar to war time Luftwaffe in color ...

[NickG]

and an inside look...Maybe the maker info is a good clue? Maker: "Schmidt & Knapwo???"
(inked on the inside pocket edge)
and another smaller (owner or tailor) tag removed...Suspect...hiding its true origins...
It remains a mystery tunic, but I agree probably something post war converted into LW...
It lacks provisions for a (war time) officer dagger....

[Gordon Craig]

I agree with Gordon that the BW issued jackets were always 4 external pleated pockets, no slanting. I've never seen a tunic like this in BRD service as far as I can remember. However, there are some Polizei uniforms that have internal lower pockets. Niedersachsen seems to be the most long lived, but I've found pics of older S-H and BEPO uniforms like this as well. Though I doubt someone found a mint condition 1940s/1950s Polizei tunic to modify, so I think we can rule that out.

I also agree with Jens that it's not possible to make a conversion without there being very obvious signs. Plus, why spend all that time and money modifying something to be completely historically inaccurate? The only slant pocket LW tunics I'm aware of are 2 pocket type. Similar for BRD items, such as BW 2 pocket dress tunics.

This does look to be post war of some sort, but I can't think of what it might be. Remember that BRD uniforms have 4 buttons for the front while Third Reich have 5, so right there someone should be suspicious. It's possible it could be something like Austrian police or another nation's non-military forces. There are a few that like this style of tunic.

In conclusion, I am not confident about what the tunic (original post) is, but I'm sure it is not Third Reich or earlier.

Steve

Steve,

I'd be interested in seeing pictures of the polizei uniforms similar to this one. They would be new to me.

Regards,

Gordon